School, Why do we go to school?

[Cloudbringer]

*smooches BK* Wonderful points about how the variety aids us in choosing those areas we might want to pursue!

This really has turned out to be a good discussion!

[Azred]

@Vaskez: just pulling your leg a bit. I always typed my papers full of errors on the first draft and just bothered correcting them later. I still have my own share of typos (thank Ziroc for the new preview post!)

@Sazerac: I agree fully about needing to modernize the school calendar. I taught at university for a couple of years and the first thing I did was revamp the review process for my math students. No longer did they have to suffer through 1 full week of reviewing what they forgot last semester/year because I boiled it down to a 3-page review; they either read it and caught up or didn't (which was not my problem, in my view). 1 week may not sound like much but a college semester is only 14 weeks (13 if you remove the week for finals).

In general, school is just a place to learn how to learn. Study what you like, sit through the subjects you dislike with quiet grace, and pursue your goals as best you can.

[TheThing]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by TheThing: time doesnt make a wise man, time makes a dead idiot. only through pain, failures and suffers do people gain understanding. ^^ so let me whip you good

You are wrong, tho I will grant you that time by itself does not wisdom make, but time is a KEY ingredient. No man nor woman has ever gained wisdom without the passage of time.[/QUOTE]yeah, whatever

[Sir Michael]

A fascinating topic, and very personal for me. I am a chemist in the wrong part of the country for scientists, and being unwilling to leave friends and family, I have chosen to "recareer" as they say (although I never really feel I had one to begin with) into teaching. I will teach physical science and chemistry in junior high or high school. I student teach in the fall, and I am currently finishing up a whirlwind and very intensive program of study at Sierra Nevada college.

All I can say is that they expect a lot from teachers, for not a lot of money. It is very tempting for teachers to get lazy and be mediocre, and that is what I have seen from observing about a dozen teachers at various schools as part of my education. The students, of course, are the losers.

I think one of the main jobs for a teacher of any subject is to show relevance. As a scientist, I will strive to show my students just where chemistry and physics fit in with their daily lives. In the short term, it is important to study hard and pay attention and learn in your classes in high school because that prepares you and makes college easier. Taking a broader view, science gives you a unique perspective and appreciation of how the world works.

In my current job, I am a data auditor - quality assurance for an EPA contractor. I use math daily, most of the chemistry and physics I learned in school, and English - reading, writing and speaking skills - are extremely important for my job. I am an amateur historian also, and I too believe that if you don't learn from history's mistakes, you are doomed to repeat them. Computers are also a hobby as well.

It was said before in other posts that the main point of school is to learn how to learn. To which I would add ...and find information. The main advantage I have over my uneducated friends is that when there is a question, I know where to look to find the answer, and they don't.

If you still don't see how education is important, consider the money issue. We all know of examples where so-and-so never went past 8th grade and he is a millionaire, but the truth is, the average college graduate makes a lot more than the person who never went to college. Plus in most companies, you have a much greater chance of advancement with a degree than without one.

When I was out of work four years ago when the lab I was working for closed, I got a temporary job as a janitor for a casino (I live in Vegas). The people I was working with had no education and had been working there for years. I since moved on, thank God, due to my degree. I mean, come on, is there a worse nightmare than cleaning toilets for the rest of your life?

In this technological age, it has never been more true that knowledge is power. It is no longer acceptable to just know a lot about one thing, you have to be everything to everyone to truly succeed in life. And that, Virginia, is why you should stay in school, go to college, work hard, be diligent, and learn as much as you can as fast as you can.

[Cloudbringer]

Just wanted to thank you, Sir Michael,for that very well presented post! I'm not sure we've met, so HELLO and nice to meet someone as articulate and well organized as you are. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I especially agree that these days you are expected to know about a lot more than one topic in most jobs.

Cloudy

[Sir Michael]

Thank you, Cloudy...I appreciate the compliment.

We haven't officially met until now, but I've been floating and lurking around the boards and occassionally posting for quite a while. I also used the name "WhiteKnight," until I decided to use the same ID at home and at work. I've certainly seen Cloudy's Cafe, and I enjoy the conversation that goes on there.

Originally posted by Sir Michael: When I was out of work four years ago when the lab I was working for closed, I got a temporary job as a janitor for a casino (I live in Vegas). The people I was working with had no education and had been working there for years. I since moved on, thank God, due to my degree. I mean, come on, is there a worse nightmare than cleaning toilets for the rest of your life? .

A wonderful post dude! [img]smile.gif[/img] I would also like to commend your work ethic for taking the Janitorial job, too many people ar so lazy and egotistical that they would rather sponge off the charity of of the government rather than earn their way out of a crisis. Thumbs up and a hearty slap on the back for being a man of character and conviction.

[Kaz]

To the multi-month break thing - I live in Germany, where we have 6 weeks of holidays. I have to agree, 10 weeks is rather much, although it IS fun!
One of the things I've noticed is that it is more typical for families in Germany to do something during their vacation - travel to a foreign country, etc. Most German families (at least the ones I know) spend 3-5 weeks of their vacation away someplace (my family normally goes on hiking tours in the Alps, for instance). This leaves a few weeks time for simply relaxing - perfectly acceptable, IMHO.
However, if one has TEN, not six weeks of vacation, and if one does almost nothing during this break, then I have to agree fully - that is too much.

Another point:
Learning to learn is all very well, but with some of the teachers we get, it isn't possible to learn. We have teachers who are literally AFRAID of the students, and my class is a... rather agressive one. A friend of mine said that his class had managed to get a teacher to storm out in tears, and mine isn't far away from achieving that. Out of the about 25 teachers I've had in the last 4 years, I'd estimate maybe 3 good ones, 5 okay ones, 10 mediocre teachers, 4 awful teachers and 3 REALLY awful teachers. And I thought education was supposed to be one of the most important things the government worries about? Think again. Most of the awful teachers are teachers who are very good in terms of knowledge and experience but never faced a class full of students until they were already too far down the "teaching path" to quit. And some of the teachers-in-training we get are even worse...
*rant off*
Hope I didn't offend anyone [img]redface.gif[/img]

[Sir Michael]

Magik - Thanks for the compliment, that was cool.

Kaz - I think a lot of the problem is that, as a society, we get what we pay for. Teachers don't make 6 figures like doctors and lawyers, so you are not going to get the highest quality people entering the teaching profession.

Also, people don't realize (I certainly didn't) that teaching kids is not like teaching adults where all you need is a pleasant personality and a knowledge of the subject. There is a lot more to it, some of which I'm learning now, but some of it will be on the job training, literally.

Heres another interesting tidbit: Our schools start at 9, 8, and 7 am for elementary, junior and senior high schools, respectively. We learned that high school students, because of brain chemistry CAN'T fall asleep before midnight most nights...so they get up very early, and are very tired at school, and their learning suffers. Its actually been shown that in other states where school days for high schoolers were made later, attendance, learning, grades and test scores all improved. What does our school district say? Something about how bus schedules can't be changed, and they can't do anything about the problem.

Originally posted by Kaz: Another point: Learning to learn is all very well, but with some of the teachers we get, it isn't possible to learn. We have teachers who are literally AFRAID of the students, and my class is a... rather agressive one. A friend of mine said that his class had managed to get a teacher to storm out in tears, and mine isn't far away from achieving that. Out of the about 25 teachers I've had in the last 4 years, I'd estimate maybe 3 good ones, 5 okay ones, 10 mediocre teachers, 4 awful teachers and 3 REALLY awful teachers. And I thought education was supposed to be one of the most important things the government worries about? Think again. Most of the awful teachers are teachers who are very good in terms of knowledge and experience but never faced a class full of students until they were already too far down the "teaching path" to quit. And some of the teachers-in-training we get are even worse... *rant off* Hope I didn't offend anyone [img]redface.gif[/img]

This is exactly the reason I think HS grads should have a mandatory "Military bootcamp like" encounter. A lot of that arogance and snottiness gets knocked right out of them....I see far too much of this kind of thing living near two major urban type areas.