Switching Roles and Lvl7 Spellcraft

Hi ppl.

Ive only just joined this board, so here's a big hello to everyone.

im kinda looking for some advice as to switching roles...specifically, about switching to the warlock role. its a great role, doesnt crimp ones learning of previously known spellbooks, but what im curious to know is this: do u all think it better to switch to a warlock as a character's final role advance, or does one do better adopting a more fightertype role as a character's final advance, stopping by the warlock path to learn some extra spellbooks and gain some extra mana?

id like to have a couple of premier spellslingers in my party, which entails the warlock role, but cant help thinking that switching to another role later on would be better, as then the guy qould be able to cast lotsa spells, while wearing armour and swinging a sword, or throwing karate chops? opinions?

also, about mana increases per level advance. each time we go up levels, all available spellbooks gain an automatic mana increase, and if a new spell is learnt, then the mana pool of the relevant spellbook goes up as well. but has anyone noticed that once your spellcraft (sun, moon, stone etc) level reaches 7, you stop gaining automatic mana increases when u go up levels? sure, u'll still gain mana in that spellbook when u add a learn a new spell, but otherwise, the mana pool for the various spellbooks kinda gets stunted when the skill level for the craft reaches 7. does anyone know whats going on here? is this a bug? if so, was it addressed in the patch (which i havent downloaded). cos really, it otherwise seems tha to get a really mean spellslinger, one should avoid attaining level 7 in the spellcrafts for as long as possible to ensure the largest possible mana pools. comments anyone?

phew...guess im kinda done. dont be shy. please reply.

[Wyvern]

Welcome to the board!!

We had a thread a while back asking why have warriors at all and that is a very valid question. You really can advance your party in so many possible ways the choice you make really depends on your own preferences. Currently all my characters can sling a lot of high powered spells (I'm in my second play through of the game and my characters have changed roles a number of times) yet I choose to have the first two in the party primarily working with their weapons rather than spells. We'd probably wipe out monsters in half the time if I set them all to using spells.
Working spell casters up in their roles and high level spells and then changing them to some warrior type so that they can wear better armor and use better weapons (but when would they?) sounds like a good strategy to me.
I don't often pay attention to the "small details" such as what is happening to mana when I swich class or go up a level. I've never found these to be critical in game play - I rarely ever ran out of mana in a battle. I do seem to recall that when I switched one magic user to another class that the whole mana level got reset at a lower level than it had been but since it still didn't present a problem to my group's effectiveness, I didn't worry about it.
There are some folks on this board who really pay attention to those things and hopefully one of them will post soon with their comments - will make for some interesting reading!
Great first post, Heado'Cabbage!!

Wyv

[Sazerac]

Hello Heado'Cabbage (great handle!) and welcome to the Board!

You pose good questions. Because fighting skills are so important later in the game, I would definitely ascend to Warlock, but when I had gotten all the spells I needed, I'd switch to a fighting character.

An example: I started out with a Priest (Spirit, Vine), and then ascended her to Warlock (+Moon, Fiend). I hung out in Warlock until I got all the upper level spells I needed (6th and 7th), then switched her to Samurai (+Sun). She could now cast spells in 5 different spellbooks. At the end, I've made her a Valkyrie, so she now has Stone magic as well. She can cast as many spells as a Zenmaster, and is a great warrior on top of that. Bear in mind, though, that I'm only playing with 4 characters, so they ascend levels much quicker than a 6-character party. You may want to rethink the strategy with more characters.

What I've found is the key is getting the top level spells as fast as you can, then switch. If you've trained up to Level 8 spellcasting in the guilds, you can learn up to Level 4 magic spells in any book (1/2 of Level . With a couple of more levels (Level 10), you can get Level 5 magic, if you're still lacking some there. Realize that there are certain spells you can do without; for instance, if you have a Rogue character (or anyone who has Traps&Locks skill), you can forget about Disarm Traps (Level 5 Vine spell). Money shouldn't be a problem after Ishad N'ha; there are some "legal" ways to generate it, including Rumphy (in the Crypt Dungeon, which is why I think Bradley put him in there; he drops a fairly valuable wand every time you kill him, which gives you needed GP at the beginning of the game when you're so vitally trying to "up" your skills), and the "Dragon Arrow" trick when you join the Bushi Guild in Ishad N'ha (sell it in the store, and repurchase it at less than the sales price, and repeat).

The general consensus on the board is that for spellcasting characters, wait to ascend them to a new role after they reach 14th level (most of their "good" spells will be learned at that time.) For Warriors and Rogues, ascend them as soon as you can so that they can gain spellcasting or other skills.

I'm not sure about the Mana leveling, but I know that some of my characters have 500+ points in Mana in their casting categories. It may have to do with the Role you're in.

Hope you enjoy the Board!

[Sazerac]

P.S. I hate these damned smileys. Is there any way to disable them?

-Saz

[Scronan]

Hi There Cabbage Dude,

You know, I really should do a write up on this subject. My first time through the game I spend way too many hours on character development. Here's the lowdown if you want lots of spells.

1. You must be a Wizard for one very obvious reason: stone magic (aka METEORSTORM and ARTIFACT OF STONE). The only other characters that can get this on their own are Valkrye and Zenmaster, both of which are at the tail end of the game, and doesn't help you now. The Warlock can learn them provided you were a Wizard first and had Stone Magic, but there is a better way to do things.

2. What I recommend, is write down a progression for your character, and have a "final class" that you would like them to be. Now, here is an example of how I got my Pixie named Vesper to get every spell in the game.

First things first. Get your guild levels up and use the gold cheat. Otherwise, this will take forever and we don't have all the time in the world to wait. DWB made this game revolve around millions of gold coins, so don't feel guilty, cheat.

First off, he started as a Wizard. Now, to avoid wasting some of the time I did, have him get as many Stone spells as you can. Don't waste a lot of time with Sun magic right now. EVERY time and I do mean EVERY time you get an experience level use the guild training to get your Stone Magic up to level 7 asap.

Another thing, depending on your magic level, certain shops will offer spells for sale. I am going to make a list of which ones are sold, but you really want to avoid selecting the ones for sale on level up. This way, you will buy a few spells and then learn the rest. You can have all the magic in one element very very fast this way. Even the Thief's guild will see Moon and Fiend magic from time to time. You may find some spell books too.

Once your Wizard has all or most of the Stone magic, Warlock is a good choice. Concentrate on the Fiend magic, and like above, GET IT ALL, and get the Fiend level up to 7 ASAP. Ignore Moon for now.

Now then, if you have Fiend and Stone complete, you've just picked up some of the hardest to get magic in the game. Now, we finish things up and you have some options.

Depending on what your final class goal is, you can do the following to pick up the books of magic.

1. Ninja or Bard - This will allow you get Moon magic, done just like above.

2. Samurai - AH, my fav class. The quest is as easy as pie and you can get Sun magic galore. And Tiger Strike.

3. Paladin - Really is a good final class, don't forget to get Crusade and all the White magic.

4. Ranger - A poor final class, but get that Vine magic!

Final Class Ideas.

1. Assassin - This is a good choice since you can learn both Moon and Fiend. Say you wanted to wait on either on of these spell books, well once you get this class you will be able to get it all.

2. Zenmaster - Well you don't need my hints this way, but then again, we want to use the spells to play the game, not to wonder what the heck the designers were thinking.

3. Valkyre - She is the other that can get Stone magic, but she is basically like a super Paladin. But at the end of the game...what's the point really. You want to use Meteorstorm now, not later!

Another thing, getting spells this way will make your character not too strong in the fighting department. To balance things out, I highly highly recommend spending some time as a Barbarian for several reasons.

1. Get the best HP
2. You can get good fighting skills
3. If you have the guild membership and levels, you can get your magic skills up and then when you switch roles, start getting spells quickly
4. Barbarians kick ass!

So, do this requires you do have full guild membership and complete a lot of quests. Also, while changing roles, do not forget to pick skills like Tiger Strike, Crusade and the special skills. Get as many guild memberships as you can (preferable all of them), and every level up get your skills up in the guilds. Don't waste time in higher levels getting stats up at level up, for after level 5-6 they go up slower than molasses in the winter. So, get the stats up in the guilds and this requires gold.

I hope this helps with some ideas, I will do a more complete write up later.

Good luck!

Scronan

woah. i didnt expect so many detailed replies so quickly. u guys are great...thx wyvern, sazerac, scronan.

ive been planning my character ascensions for awhile now. this is what ive come up with.

(disclaimer: forgive my character names. with the option to rename your characters anytime, one gets lazy thinking up names...) also, the top 3 characters were brought up till ishad n'ha, and had completed bits of the serpent temple when i reset the game and began all over with new replacements for my spellcasters as i didnt like the way i had developed them...


sturm: warrior (lvl 7) ---&gtaladin (lvl ---> (to be) a samurai?

zerae: warrior (lvl 6) ---&gtaladin (lvl 9) ---> (to be) valkyrie? should i add another class before valk, as u guys have been tellig me its too far down the game?

gilthanas (okay, stop snickering already!): rogue (lvl 10) --->ninja (lvl 5) ---> (to be)an assassin? again, should i add another class before assassin? ive read somewhere that the assassin role becomes available much earlier than the other 2 special roles tho'.

shamino (stop laughing dammit! like i said, i was lazy!): wizard (lvl 5) ---> (to be) ranger? or samurai? or perhaps ranger, then samurai? --->(to be) zenmaster?

elenwe (i like this name though!): wizard (lvl 5) ---> (to be) warlock ---> (to be)ninja?

mumble the pixie (SHUDDUP!): priest (level 5) (will grab the cure poison, toughen and cure spells) ---> (to be) monk? (using kung fu gets round the inability of pixies to wear armour or wield weapons. bloody encumbrance) --->warlock?

comments? thanx again for the replies guys. loks like i'll be enjoying this board. it seems warmer than some ive been to.

[Wyvern]

Heado'Cabbage - you did ask us not to be shy! (shy?? this board??? )

Sazerac - There is no way to disable the smileys (that I know of) on THIS board, but it will be possible on the new board when Ziroc manages to finish debugging it!

Wyv

[carg]

Heady, keep a few things in mind about your proposed role-changes:
- you need to be beyond Ishad N'Ha to be able to complete the quests for ninja or samurai. So that takes a while, and you'll probably be 10th level at least. (I don't remember, because it's been a while since I played with 6 characters.)
- I would change one or both warriors to barbarian as soon as possible: they're just better, and the quest is very easy.
- don't plan valkyrie an zen master roles: the game is almost finished before you can become them. Assassin is useful, and you can change to it approx. half way through the game.

Keep smiling

Hiya Heado!
Not going to ramble on too much with giving you any information that has already been posted here, esp since I am playing kinda lame-O characters compared to everyone else's Super Mega Monster Killing Machines!
(3 Warriors, one turned Paladin, 2 turned Samurai...a Priest/Zenmaster, a Rogue/Ninja/Assassin & a Wizard/Warlock)
I just wanted to say hello & welcome to the forum!
: )
Moni

ok carg...wont plan on the zenmaster and valk roles...pity. wonder why they were put so late in the game as to not be of much use...perhaps to increase replayaybility? (2nd time through, ill solo the game with my level 1 zenmaster...)

think ill take shamino through both the ranger and samurai roles then. wonder what i should advance zeare to next? yet another samurai? im skipping on the barb...just doesnt fit in with my idea of what my characters are like. never been fond of the barbarian role in various games (Diablo2 for example. hate the bloody whirlwind barbs.)

yeah, with the exception of a few bumps to smoothen out and a hole or 2 to fill, ive a reasonable idea o what to do with my party. thanx a bunch everyone...

ps: wyv, just as an experiment, i raced again to shurugeon castle and tried turning my warlock to a ninja, and i ddint notice any dip in my mana pool. so im not sure if switching classes will ever decrease your mana pool. perhaps it wouldve if my mana pools were larger...