HOW YA LIKE US NOW ?!?!?!?!?

[Larry_OHF]

I also have another perspective of this...
If I lost my wife or child to the hands of a murderer...I do not know if my Christianity would over-rule insanity.
I love my little family more than I can express...I mean...I am the only one that proudly displays my beautiful girl in my Signature.
Imagine what her mother looks like!
Anyway...my point is that even though my religion teaches me to be peaceful, and forgive, and turn the other cheek, and rewards in Heaven are great...my own sanity would not permit me to live, knowing that my family had been taken from me, and I left to live out my days in solitude. If someone killed my wife, I would hunt that murderer down...and do all in my power to make him suffer as I suffered.

I have heard of stories of people forgiving the man who raped and killed thier preteen daughters, or drunk driving that had crashed into their sons, and such.
How those families could forgive those wicked men is not a power and blessing that I posess. I will not rest until my family is avenged.

Now, many people died that day of Sept. 11th. Many families want that same revenge. They are powerless to do so. But Bush's missles are the beginning of that for those families. I hope that they can feel at peace tonight, feeling that something has been done in thier behalf. They want the blood of the criminal minds behind the assault on thier families like I would want, if I were to have lost loved ones that day. I can understand how many people will rejoice to know that the blood of thier loved ones has been avenged, though they could not do it themselves...they had their country handle that for them. I am sure that many people will be lying down tonight, resting a bit more than they have been, and I bid them a good night.

------------------

3rd Member of the Ancient OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position & Ambassador)
Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[This message has been edited by Larry_OHF (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Proverbs 24:17 ...Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth. I don't think that Liliara meant that she was glad to see us in the middle of war. I believe she, like I, and many others, are seeing that we are standing up for ourselves, and will not be bullied into what they (the enemy) wish us to be. My percpective of the origin of this thread is that we are fighting for freedom against the oppresion that the terrorists have been inflicting upon the world. Not just U.S grounds...that is why so many other countries stand beside us. I am happy to see a possible conclusion beginning with this. I am not happy for blood shed. I am happy for knowing that we are attempting to oppress the oppresors. To put down the system that works aginst us. I hate to think that blood will be spilt upon reaching this goal. The above scripture says that we are not to be happy if our enemy falls. But it does not say that I cannot be happy for seeing the plans of the enemy ruined...

Thank you! This is exactly what I intended in my thoughts. I do not wish to gloat. I too remember this passage from the Bible, which is why I said that I would need to pray later. Although I do not want to be happy, I cannot help but be happy that SOMETHING is being done. I would like to include, that aside from our country, the coutries that are with us, the aid workers in Afghanistan, and the opressed of Afghanistan, I also pray for our enemy. Not that they will overcome, of course, but that they will turn from their ways. And no matter who believes or not, God's will WILL be done!



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Liliara: And no matter who believes or not, God's will WILL be done!

I have to say that it's not "God's will" being done, it is man's will. Men made the decisions to kill and be at war, not God. God's will was that we have the freedom to choose how we act and react. A series of decisions led to this moment. For good or bad, we do as we do, but please, don't tell me it is God's will that we go to war, that is, in my opinion, very much like what the fanatics on the other side are saying in response. Only they say it's His will that we 'infidels' die. I humbly submit that both are wrong.

Cloudy

------------------


Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: I have to say that it's not "God's will" being done, it is man's will. Men made the decisions to kill and be at war, not God. God's will was that we have the freedom to choose how we act and react. A series of decisions led to this moment. For good or bad, we do as we do, but please, don't tell me it is God's will that we go to war, that is, in my opinion, very much like what the fanatics on the other side are saying in response. Only they say it's His will that we 'infidels' die. I humbly submit that both are wrong. Cloudy

Hmmm.... I don't know if people look for it, or if I simply don't come accross well. I never said it was God's will for us to go to war! I simply meant that God's will is what will come in the end. As a Christian, I live my life trusting in God. I daily try to put my life in his hands (I say TRY because I am human, I am very fallible)

As a Christian yourself (??) I would think that you would understand this and not lump me in with bin Laden's group!

------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: I have to say that it's not "God's will" being done, it is man's will. Men made the decisions to kill and be at war, not God. God's will was that we have the freedom to choose how we act and react. A series of decisions led to this moment. For good or bad, we do as we do, but please, don't tell me it is God's will that we go to war, that is, in my opinion, very much like what the fanatics on the other side are saying in response. Only they say it's His will that we 'infidels' die. I humbly submit that both are wrong. Cloudy

Some people, not I, but others I know, feel this is right out of the scriptures, especially the beginning of Revelations...thus in their minds...God's will IS being done because God told us this was going to happen and that after this and that is done, Jesus would come and the end of the world would be here, and the angles would blow the trumpets...etc.

I do not believe this is the opening of Revelations, and my church leaders have not said anything to make me believe so, but other churches ARE telling their congregations that this is the beginning of the end. People are probably looking for the signs written in the Book of Revelations, and feel that we are complying to what God has already told us we would do. So, in some people's minds...this is the will of God, Allah, Jehova, whatever...

P.S...it is 1:17am, and I am going to sleep now. Good night, everyone...~ blows kisses and stuff...

------------------

3rd Member of the Ancient OHF and Diamond Ranger of the ALSB (secretarial position & Ambassador)
Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.



[This message has been edited by Larry_OHF (edited 10-08-2001).]

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Liliara: Hmmm.... I don't know if people look for it, or if I simply don't come accross well. I never said it was God's will for us to go to war! I simply meant that God's will is what will come in the end. As a Christian, I live my life trusting in God. I daily try to put my life in his hands (I say TRY because I am human, I am very fallible) As a Christian yourself (??) I would think that you would understand this and not lump me in with bin Laden's group!

I may have misread it, Liliara, and if so, I apologize, but it did sound very much as if you were saying that God's will is the war we fight now.

And fwiw, yes, I am a Christian. Episcopalian, to be precise.

------------------


Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: I may have misread it, Liliara, and if so, I apologize, but it did sound very much as if you were saying that God's will is the war we fight now. And fwiw, yes, I am a Christian. Episcopalian, to be precise.

Hey, I can deal with that, I am often misread! No hard feelings, eh?



------------------

Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

I could not rest in light of my own personal loss knowing that more innocent lives may have been lost in the pursuit of justice. It would tarnish justice to me, just as hasty military action tarnishes the due process of the American justice system and the better-minded processes of diplomacy.

Only 28 days for whats an usually lenthy investigation/extradition process between Allies. Why? Why act so quickly? Why give up on diplomacy? Can anyone answer this question with any authority and knowledge? The emotional reasons are clear enough, but those alone dont justify actions to me.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: How do I like you now? Well, I must say that someone who receives such joy because we have started bombing is rather disturbing to me, actually.

Hmmm...sorry about this Dio, but I'm going to have to 'disturb' you also.

Liliara, I'm right there with ya hon!!!

------------------
"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by G'kar: I could not rest in light of my own personal loss knowing that more innocent lives may have been lost in the pursuit of justice. It would tarnish justice to me, just as hasty military action tarnishes the due process of the American justice system and the better-minded processes of diplomacy. Only 28 days for whats an usually lenthy investigation/extradition process between Allies. Why? Why act so quickly? Why give up on diplomacy? Can anyone answer this question with any authority and knowledge? The emotional reasons are clear enough, but those alone dont justify actions to me.

I agree with what my illuminated brother G'Kar has said.

If my family were murdered, hell yes I would want to see justice done. However, I would not be so reckless in my desire for vengeance/justice that I in turn murdered innocents along the way.