Newest Hamas leader killed

[johnny]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by johnny: The Mossad are terrorists ? wow..... you learn something new every day here.

It's known as state sponsored terrorism. How do you justify kidnapping in a foreign country? [/QUOTE]I gotta agree with that, but he kinda brought it on himself. didn't he ? You can't just run to the press and tell them highly classified stuff, and expect to get away with it. Especially not when it's highly classified Israeli stuff.

[ 04-23-2004, 07:23 AM: Message edited by: johnny ]

[Black Baron]

Vaanunu broke a law, and had to be judged in israel. How would we brought him here? He by himself did not want to return here.
He told highly classfied information about our nuclear potential. He sold it for 75000$ . He is a traitor, because he told it to damage israel. In the tapes that were recorded without his knowing he said "there should be no israel, only Palestine".
Regardless of everything, skunk and people that thinks that slime a "holy person", he broke a law. Thus he deserved punishment. Now he is free person, or will be totally free after one year.
Are terrorists acting according to the law?


Now about Mossad. If you think skunk that they are a terrorists, then i am at loss. You tend to blame israel for all its worth, without even basic knowledge of the subject.
According to you it is a fashistic (see our first debate when i only arrived here) state that harbours terrorists.

About fashism. You claim that there are several cases of mistreatment and "mouth shutting" of political enemies of sharon. OK there were some cases when some arab knesset members were tried because of some meetings with hizbalah (!!!).

Can every one that reads this post dig out the exact defeniton of fashist country and fashism in general? Here we have a democratic country. sharon was chosen in a democratic way. Our supreme court constantly messes with his desicions. He is investigated. Maybe he is corrupt. But it is a loooooooooooooong way from fashism.

Mossad kills terrorists. It is an organization much like CIA. You name them terrorists too. In fact every agency of that type is a terroristic organization. Well GRU was (CIA of USSR) a terroristic organization by your defenition. Why that one was and ours is not? Because it served a terroristic regime, and killed enemies of the state. I am sorry but when you are a member of organization that wants to destroy israel, like tanzim, hamas etc, you are a terrorist. Mossad acts against only one group that wants to kill us in the first place.

So now you hit a problem. Because of your defenition there are "good" and "bad" terrorists.
Unless you claim that executing the murderers of our sportsmen was a crime.
Since that it is clear that this defenition is b*** ***t, because there is no "good" or "bad" terror, you are in a dead end.

Skunk, you are biased against israel. I can hardly think about any other possibility.

Why does Israel INSIST on using these crude assassination attempts!? They make Cyanide and Piano Wires for a Reason, Ariel Sharon! WAKE UP!!!

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Donut: It's known as state sponsored terrorism. How do you justify kidnapping in a foreign country?

The same way you justify any action -- you look at the facts. If the Mossad is going into a country and kidnapping civilians to hold hostage and make demands, we call that terrorism. If they are going in to grab people who are wanted for crimes so they can take them to Israel and try them, we call that capture.

People keep making this mistake on these forums. The act itself is not all you look at in judging things. If the US bombs a building in Fallujah that contains a cell of insurgents, it is fighting the enemy. When the insurgents responds by bombing the streets of Basra, it's an attack on civilians -- that's called terrorism.

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Yorick: You language and rhetoric reeks of antisemetic bias Skunk and it makes me sick.

Real helpful Yorick. Do you actually want to discuss this issue and debate the points people make or beat down anyone who you disagree with? Statements like that don't help anyone. If you want to tell someone they make you sick the only reason I can see you'd do it in public would be to further isolate them and fan the flames.

Lots of stuff people say, including a lot of your stuff in this thread, makes me feel sick. But posting that helps no one. If you really think someone's being racist then report them. And then you wouldn't have to look so hurt and insulted in public, which is surely not something you want to do...

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Black Baron: Can every one that reads this post dig out the exact defeniton of fashist country and fashism in general? Here we have a democratic country. sharon was chosen in a democratic way. Our supreme court constantly messes with his desicions. He is investigated. Maybe he is corrupt. But it is a loooooooooooooong way from fashism.

I agree - Isreal is not fascist. It is democratic and upholds, for its citizens, most of the rights a liberal democracy could be expected to. However for me this doesn't change the fact that its oppressing the Palestinians, both inside and outside its borders. In fact the case of Isreal is one of the most clear cut examples of the failure of political emancipation to create just societies. You need more than democratic process to justify a states behaviour.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by johnny: The Mossad are terrorists ? wow..... you learn something new every day here.

It's known as state sponsored terrorism. How do you justify kidnapping in a foreign country? [/QUOTE]The goal of terrorism, is to inflict terror on a populace so that an end is met. Like a policy reversal, retreat, armistice etc.

You could call the bombing of London, a wartime terror tactic.

Going in and grabbing a person that has broken law is not terrorism, because the end is exactly the action taken - to get the person. There may be substancial results from such an action, but the INTENT is that a violator of law is brought to justice.

America did the same thing with Noriega, and now Hussein. To call all of this terrorism weakens the word, as it lumps in centuries of human actions in with the recent developments of the IRA, Al Qaeda, Hamas et al, which IMO should be isolatingly described.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You language and rhetoric reeks of antisemetic bias Skunk and it makes me sick.

Real helpful Yorick. Do you actually want to discuss this issue and debate the points people make or beat down anyone who you disagree with? Statements like that don't help anyone. If you want to tell someone they make you sick the only reason I can see you'd do it in public would be to further isolate them and fan the flames.

Lots of stuff people say, including a lot of your stuff in this thread, makes me feel sick. But posting that helps no one. If you really think someone's being racist then report them. And then you wouldn't have to look so hurt and insulted in public, which is surely not something you want to do... [/QUOTE]Fair enough.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by johnny: The Mossad are terrorists ? wow..... you learn something new every day here.

It's known as state sponsored terrorism. How do you justify kidnapping in a foreign country? [/QUOTE]The goal of terrorism, is to inflict terror on a populace so that an end is met. Like a policy reversal, retreat, armistice etc.

You could call the bombing of London, a wartime terror tactic.

Going in and grabbing a person that has broken law is not terrorism, because the end is exactly the action taken - to get the person. There may be substancial results from such an action, but the INTENT is that a violator of law is brought to justice.

America did the same thing with Noriega, and now Hussein. To call all of this terrorism weakens the word, as it lumps in centuries of human actions in with the recent developments of the IRA, Al Qaeda, Hamas et al, which IMO should be isolatingly described. [/QUOTE]Yes it *IS* terrorism.
A law-abiding country would have issued an international arrest warrants for those that it wanted and followed extradition proceedings. Instead, it sent teams of murderers and kidnappers into sovereign democratic states on a trail of mayhem.

That is state-sponsored terrorism, as I'm sure Ahmed Bouchikhi's family and the government of Norway would agree. Indeed the Mossad agent (Michael Harari) who oversaw the murder supplied the terrorist Sudanese PLA with arms who then went on to kill thousands of people with them... But you don't consider that terrorism because the victims weren't your own?

Originally posted by Black Baron: According to you it is a fashistic (see our first debate when i only arrived here) state that harbours terrorists.

I didn't call it a facist state, I said that there were elements that were like a police state - ie the apartheid system, the racial laws and the gagging of political opponents.

Originally posted by Black Baron: Mossad kills terrorists. It is an organization much like CIA. You name them terrorists too. In fact every agency of that type is a terroristic organization. Well GRU was (CIA of USSR) a terroristic organization by your defenition. Why that one was and ours is not? Because it served a terroristic regime, and killed enemies of the state.

There is NO difference between the KGB and Mossad - both were/are bad and both served regimes that paid/pay scant regard to international laws (esp. in the area of human rights).

Originally posted by Black Baron: Unless you claim that executing the murderers of our sportsmen was a crime. Since that it is clear that this defenition is b*** ***t, because there is no "good" or "bad" terror, you are in a dead end. Skunk, you are biased against israel. I can hardly think about any other possibility.

Mossad came to MY HOME TOWN and engages in brutal murders without reference to my goverment or respecting the laws of MY COUNTRY. And you wonder why I am bothered by a state that sponsors terrorism in this manner and tramples over the laws of MY COUNTRY?
And no, MOSSAD did not execute the murders of the Munich massacre because no-one ever stood trial for the crime - they murdered innocent men, because none of them had been convicted of the crime or even been indited - including that norwegian waiter who was gunned down in front of his pregnant wife!

[johnny]

They were positively identified by the best secret servicemen on this planet. Not a single judge could have brought better justice upon them than the Mossad did.

*December 8 1972 Mahmoud Hamshari picks up the phone in his room in Paris, and explodes. He was one of the leaders of the Black September group.

*April 6 1973 Basil al Kubaisi, a member of Black September, was gunned down in a Paris street.

*April 9 1973 Another Black september member, Kamal Nasser is eliminated in Beirut.

*January 22 1979 Chief operations for Black September Ali Hassan Salameh is killed by a remote controled bomb in Beirut.

There wasn't a single innocent man among these names, they were all behind the screens in the Munich attack. Once again you show you have a very questionable look on who's innocent and who's not.