Talked with some kids on the internet... disappointed...

[Jaradu]

Well, basically I was on MSN Messenger minding my own business. I got invited into a huge conversation of kids my age - from 12 to 15. Half were English and half were Irish... Apparently, the English kids were insulting the Irish ones, calling them "terrorists" and the like. The Irish were defenceless to the barrage of name-calling.

I tried to calm everyone down and ask why they were stereotyping every Irishman as a terrorist. However, the messages were flying up so quickly that I wasn't heard. Eventually, the Irish people left the conversation and, their fun ending, so did most of the English. A few lingered around though, which was the perfect opportunity to gain answers.

As much as I tried, I just could not convince them that every Irish person in the world is not a terrorist. Despite my best arguments and comebacks, they refused to believe - dismissing my well-thought-out points with stuff like "dere nobs lol".

Eventually, as the subject was on terrorism, they begain to talk about Osama Bin Laden. Now, in as most situations as possible, I try to remain neutral to both sides - no matter WHO'S arguing and WHO seems more wrong. So I tried to see things from Bin Laden's point of view and see what they thought of it. I explained to them that he grew up differently. Maybe he believes his religious teachings are being threatened which causes him to attack. Attacking is not, in our P.O.V., deemed appropriate, but (again) he was brought up differently. It's not neccesarily wrong just because weare against it.

This, of course, kicked up some steam. They assumed from my little insight that I supported Osama Bin Laden. I never said that, but their minds aren't going to be changed, are they?

Me 'supporting' Bin Laden caused them to hurl insults such as "devil worshipper". I explained that I could very well be a Satanist - confusing them slightly. I probably shouldn't have done this, but I was pretty cheesed off in the heat of the moment. They starting saying stuff like "WTF" and "OMG". I tried to explain that Satanists do not necessarily worship Satan. You don't have to be evil to be a Satanist. You don't even have to be religious or believe in any God at all. MODS: Religious point? Delete if so.

Well, the argument continued with stuff like that and I was unable to shield my way through the insults coming at me - I felt like the Irish probably did.

Right this minute I'm getting to know each one a little better. Alone, they're quite nice and peaceful people. However, it seems that once in a group they try to act big which is where all the insults come from.

I've now lost contact with some of those 'friends' at the sacrifice of trying to spruce up my mediating skills. Worth it, I'd say. I'm very interested in negotiating and mediating. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, my point is that many kids are learning stereotypes from early on and have such a small insight into life that they're minds cannot be changed. Something must be done to make them see things from other people's point of view, but appealing to such a huge and stubborn audience seems impossible. Are we doomed with these people forever?

[Aerich]

All you can do is your little bit to challenge the straight-line thinking. Good on ya for trying.

Considering the age of the participants and their evident inability to consider ideas rationally, I'd say that they're most likely parroting the opinions they hear from their parents, peers, and media. And as you rightly pointed out, much of that behavior stems from acting up to "impress" their peers. Messenger is reasonably anonymous, so they probably felt like they could get away with being idiots.

Hope that the penny drops sometime. Maybe they will be more receptive when they start reading books and get taught something about history/current events and life in general. When is history taught in England's curriculum? I know that I didn't get taught 20th century history in a systematic manner until I hit grade 12.

If you're interested in negotiation, mediation and debate, you could do worse than hang out in CE - all those skills will get a workout, guaranteed.

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Jaradu: I explained that I could very well be a Satanist - confusing them slightly.

Good move give them nowhere to go, take their best ammo away from them. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dron_Cah]

Yeah, man, I agree that it was good of you to try. But I wonder: "Satanists do not necessarily worship Satan." Uh, I hope my ignorance isn't showing, but people usually call you by what you are, and confess to be. If not, then the what they say is generally not accepted. Anyways, how can one be a Satanist, and not worship Satan? I don't mean to kick up a religous debate, but I think the wording here has me a bit confused. Maybe you meant a different word?

[Melusine]

Dude. It's really quite simple. Some people on this planet have the intellectual abilities of bricks. Very stupid bricks, at that. Do you really think your power with words is so magnificent that you can sway simply ANYBODY? No? Then why try to sway people that from your posts appear to be the dullest knives that any drawer has ever held? It's frustrating enough when you cannot convince someone in a reasonably equal-footed, intelligent debate, so I really don't see why you would even *try* with a bunch of retards who consider "dere nobs lol" a valid argument. I mean, DOH. I've accepted a long time ago that many people are just too dullwitted to even concern myself with. Yes, that is extremely elitist and no, I don't have any problems with that.

As for Dron_Cah's question on Satanism: according to believers, Satanism has nothing to do with worship of the Christian devil; in fact most Satanists consider the "invention of the devil" to be a hoax intended to frighten people. So the term is a bit misleading. Satanism (as far as I know, of course) entails a faith in yourself, rather than in any external higher beings. Often Crowley's law (you can look that one up on Google, I'm not an encyclopaedia ) "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is cited as a primary tenet of the faith, sometimes with the addition "as long as it harms none".
There are only a few bad apples in the basket, Black Satanist type people, who have gotten notorious for orgies and bloodfests.
Hope that helps.

[ 08-26-2004, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Melusine: Dude. It's really quite simple. Some people on this planet have the intellectual abilities of bricks. Very stupid bricks, at that. Do you really think your power with words is so magnificent that you can sway simply ANYBODY? No? Then why try to sway people that from your posts appear to be the dullest knives that any drawer has ever held? It's frustrating enough when you cannot convince someone in a reasonably equal-footed, intelligent debate, so I really don't see why you would even *try* with a bunch of retards who consider "dere nobs lol" a valid argument. I mean, DOH. I've accepted a long time ago that many people are just too dullwitted to even concern myself with. Yes, that is extremely elitist and no, I don't have any problems with that.

Hahaha! And dat's why me luvs ya Sawah! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by Melusine: Dude. It's really quite simple. Some people on this planet have the intellectual abilities of bricks.

What's a brick? [img]graemlins/question4.gif[/img]

[ 08-26-2004, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[Yorick]

Well done Jaradu. Good attempt. You're a good sort mate. [img]smile.gif[/img] Be encouraged.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Melusine: As for Dron_Cah's question on Satanism: according to believers, Satanism has nothing to do with worship of the Christian devil; in fact most Satanists consider the "invention of the devil" to be a hoax intended to frighten people. So the term is a bit misleading. Satanism (as far as I know, of course) entails a faith in yourself, rather than in any external higher beings. Often Crowley's law (you can look that one up on Google, I'm not an encyclopaedia ) "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is cited as a primary tenet of the faith, sometimes with the addition "as long as it harms none". There are only a few bad apples in the basket, Black Satanist type people, who have gotten notorious for orgies and bloodfests. Hope that helps.

I do believe you are correct Sarah. [img]smile.gif[/img] Which of course begs the question as to why they named themselves after the English word for this supposedly invented being? Could have been quite easy to call themselves "Powerists" Selfpotentists" or any other such word that accurately describes the belief system. The concept of Satan/the devil was first introduced in the earliest JEWISH work of the bible: "The book of JOB" around 4000 years ago, so it's not a new idea they suddenly had to contend with.

Of course the Satan I do believe exists doesn't want the world to believe he exists, so if Satanists really ARE following the same Judeo/Christian/Islamic Satan I know and have had experience of, then it is consistent with his methods that his "followers" would be denying his existence.

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

2 things.

1. Firstly, remember you are on msn. Kids of that age act like prats on msn all the time, simply because they think its funny, there is no one there to physically stop them, it gives them and their mates a laugh, and they just generally think it worthwhile to do.

Personally I think these people are really idiots who, if you think about it, are pretty dumb to say such things. Sometimes people can take these things too seriously and fights/abuse will start up and people will get upset.

2. They probably didn't genuinely believe what they said, unless they are completely stupid and have been deprived of an education, or unless there parents have very strong views on the subjects you discussed. I bet if you asked them all seperately, why they thought all Irish were terrorists, they wouldn't actually be able to come up with a valid answer. They would probably say something like "because" or "it's a well known fact" or something else completely obserd along these lines.

Basically, these people really just have to grow up and realise that the world is not as they think it is.