Explicit Lyrics

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Drake: Mitro Jellywadder, why would let those words bother you? does any one know why these words are declared "inappropriate" realy I find it hard to believe that some guy just said "I don't like the word shit, lets make it bad" then every one said "yeah ok"...no I'm shure that's not the case.

Drake, please read my previous post, I tried to answer this question before.

Your reasoning is just not logical. You assume that there was first a word, and its meaning got invented later. Of course, it's the other way round. The reason why a word like 'shit' can be used offensively and is often thought insulting, is because SHIT MEANS HUMAN OR ANIMAL FAECES. *smiles* It's as simple as that. If you call someone "you little shit" you are in fact comparing them to a REAL piece of shit. Now, since shit is considered unpleasant by most people (I can't believe I'm having to explain this! ), it would be only logical to conclude that they won't like being compared to it. Take the word ■■■■. In most modern cultures, fuc... I mean "making love", whatever you want to call it, is still considered taboo, in that you wouldn't openly discuss it with anybody (your grandparents or parents for example) and in that it isn't considered normal (for most people, heh.) to do it publicly and in the open. Therefore, the same goes as for 'shit' - people associate the word with all its connotations, even if you use it meaning something other than 'having sex'. I'm sure I don't have to explain c*** to you, now do I? Same principle, really.



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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Drake: does any one know why these words are declared "inappropriate" realy I find it hard to believe that some guy just said "I don't like the word shit, lets make it bad" then every one said "yeah ok"...no I'm shure that's not the case. so does any one know? if there comes an answer to this I think it might be useful for you parents out there to tell it to your kids then maybe they will see a better reson for no cussing. I mean with all the atheist running around now of days it's hard for the "you'll go to hell" threat to work. j\k wow that joke made me feel better, even if it was lame.

I'm sure these words have been labeled as 'bad' resultant from the fact that the true context of these words are either 'nasty' (i.e. sh*t - excrement is gross) or sexual (repressive religion deems sex as either naughty or even perverse) or religiously inappropriate (Gd, for instance); therefore it would seem that, since the original intent of the word may be ugly, nasty, rude or naughty, etc. it becomes inappropriate to use the words in any OTHER context as well. ??? Make sense at all? I hope.

EDIT: COOL! Mel and I posted similarly at the same time! Great minds! But you worded yours better.

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Alureth...Dragon friend of Breanna, Mage and Advisor in the Court of Lady Lioness

Co-Owner/Operator of the Evil Petting Zoo and devout member of the HADB clan.
Commander of the Dragon Fleet, IW Peacekeeping Force
Sublime Sister of the Illuminati - may the Light shine forever!
Second Historian and Scribe of IW. Mother Hen of IW.
Mage extraordinair, Pin-Up Girl for the OLD-COOTS
Magey-Wagey: performer in the Nekked Dancing Trio of the ORT.

Hopeless Romantic *sigh*

[This message has been edited by DragonMage (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Drake: picture this your walking down the street you see some kids about ages 12-15 you hear them talking one says "oh now that's ■■■■■■■ funny" and you hear another say "oh now that's rather funny" would you think that the one that said ■■■■ is any less smart or that he is any differnet in anyway? if so why?

Kid's have lots of adjectives to use and "rather" is probably not at the top of the list

If I heard a twelve year old say "■■■■", I'd think he was either trying to be cool, or that his parents did not instill in him that there are certain words you don't use in public.

I think it would be as wrong as seeing him smoking a cigarette, and chugging a beer. He's not mature enough to make this kind of decision. He doesn't know the effects it will have on his life, or what kind of image he might get. People can curse and have fun with it, but you have to know when it's acceptable.

Imagine, straight out of college(F.U. I would assume), he goes for a job interview, "look dude, I really need this f**king job, man!" Asked to give the eulogy at Uncle Joe's funeral, "he was the best motherf**ker I ever knew." Sunday after church(I know Christians who curse like sailors when they are off "holy ground"), "pastor that was the best g*dd*mn sermon I ever heard! Made this grown motherf**ker cry!"

These are funny(?), extreme examples, but I know people who don't know when to "turn it off" and it has cost them. One guy lost a nice promotion because, to him, they were just words, and "no one thinks like that anymore". The problem is, people think he's funny(and he really can be), but no one want's him to represent them. I told him, and he still doesn't believe that's the reason, but it was.

They are just words. The entire language is a bunch of words we put together in different ways, but, as with everything else in this world, you should think before you curse.

"There's a time and a place for everything."

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[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Melusine]

Originally posted by DragonMage: EDIT: COOL! Mel and I posted similarly at the same time! Great minds! But you worded yours better.

Actually I was thinking the same about your post...I thought yours was much clearer and more succinct. *laughs*
Oh well, at least we've showed that Great Minds think alike

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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Drake: "meaningless addition of an inappropriate word to the communication" so was ain't but last time I heard it was added to the english dictionary as a used word for are not. Anyway that wasn't my point. what I can't figure out is why "sware words" are sware words. I mean yeah they are known for being "inappropriate" but why? why are those words considered inappropriate and not others?

Dear Drake,

I was wanting to post sooner, but had to wait until I found the reference I was seeking on this. Barbara Lawrence, an English professor, wrote on this subject in an article many years ago entitled "Four-Letter Words Can Hurt You." It has since become one of the most-studied essays. I myself remember studying it in Senior English in High School. Here is a passage from the work:

"Making love is a beautiful way of describing sex; however, many will argue that it is not always accurate. In a situation where making love is inappropriate, f--- is not always accurate either. F--- is not commonly accepted as an appropriate verb to describe sex. Yet among many of the younger generation f--- is the most common way to describe the act of sex. Why is it inappropriate? F--- comes from the German word ficken meaning 'to strike,' associated with the Latin word fustis, 'a staff or cudgel,' in combination with the Celtic word buc meaning 'a point, hence to pierce.' Strike and pierce are not pleasant; in fact they are violent, even brutal words that are used in disguise with the word f---. These words make sex seem worthless, violent, painful, and derogatory, instead of what it is really supposed to be to people sharing themselves with each other, for pleasure or love depending on the situation. The word that I find most offensive is screw. It comes from words meaning 'groove, nut, ditch, breeding sow, and swelling."

Dr. Lawrence goes on to argue that obscene language is dangerous not only because of its sadistic origins, but also because of its mechanistic functions. Flaying the tabooed words for what they really are, she tries to educate the reader to choose their words more carefully. Dr. Lawrence questions why some words are acceptable to society while others, supposedly with the same meaning, are tabooed.

"Four Letter Words Can Hurt You" responds that this question can no longer be answered simply because of "sexual hangups" or "class oppression." With their brutal and sadistic origins, the tabooed words have evolved over the years to reduce the act of intercourse and the parts involved to inhuman mechanics and instruments of those mechanics. When you strip away the identity or the human factor involved, you have reduced that person to inanimate object. This, Lawrence suggests, is the real reason these words are obscene. Lawrence then argues that these "dehumanizing descriptives" are particularly damaging to all forms of sexual intimacy. For they not only damage our vision of women by figuratively reducing them to a "skirt" or a "piece," but also encourage men to be consistently self-involved.

If you haven't had a chance to read this essay in its entirety, I would recommend it...it's an excellent read, and a definite eye-opener, when you consider the origins of some of those words. It's a fairly popular essay, one that you can probably find in many college-level anthologies on expository writing.

Cheers,




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Patience, my BUTT...I'm going to KILL something!!!

[Drake]

Originally posted by Melusine: Drake, please read my previous post, I tried to answer this question before. Your reasoning is just not logical. You assume that there was first a word, and its meaning got invented later. Of course, it's the other way round. The reason why a word like 'shit' can be used offensively and is often thought insulting, is because SHIT MEANS HUMAN OR ANIMAL FAECES. *smiles* It's as simple as that. If you call someone "you little shit" you are in fact comparing them to a REAL piece of shit. Now, since shit is considered unpleasant by most people (I can't believe I'm having to explain this! ), it would be only logical to conclude that they won't like being compared to it. Take the word ■■■■. In most modern cultures, fuc... I mean "making love", whatever you want to call it, is still considered taboo, in that you wouldn't openly discuss it with anybody (your grandparents or parents for example) and in that it isn't considered normal (for most people, heh.) to do it publicly and in the open. Therefore, the same goes as for 'shit' - people associate the word with all its connotations, even if you use it meaning something other than 'having sex'. I'm sure I don't have to explain c*** to you, now do I? Same principle, really.

"""don't get too philosophical - this quibbling on the actual meanings of words will get you nowhere in this case. Besides, I would say that they do have actual meanings, and offensive ones at that. (this is not to say that I never swear, but I do KNOW that they are inappropriate to use and there are a number of situations which I can think of in which I wouldn't swear.) Now, as for your question, these words are considered inappropriate because of what they denote. If you call your grandmother a fuckin bitch, it is most definitely inappropriate (and that's an understatement!!), because these words DO have meaning! Now, if you use 'fuckin' in a 'meaningless' way, as in 'that was fuckin great!' (I'd argue it is not meaningless, as it's an adjective to fortify the word great, but I can see that by meaningless you mean one could just as easily use a non-swearword like 'really'), it still has the same connotations as it does in the first example. Is that so hard to understand?
Oh, and as far as I know, 'ain't' is not meaningless, it is a verbform that means the same as 'am not'. What you mean is that it's grammatically incorrect, but hey, take a look around on the Internet - what isn't? """

is that what your talking about? it seams to me that you gave an example of explicit words being used in a bad way. you also mentiond that ain't is not meaningless, but I don't see an actual reson for why a cuss word is a cuss word.

"Your reasoning is just not logical. You assume that there was first a word" no I was saying that it couldn't have been something like that. so I was asking how it was.

"SHIT MEANS HUMAN OR ANIMAL FAECES. *smiles* It's as simple as that. If you call someone "you little shit" you are in fact comparing them to a REAL piece of shit" yes I don't have a problem understanding the fact that if you call some one "a little shit" it means yuo think that they are a shit. check this out faeces (or feces as it's also know as) means the same thing as crap or poopoo so why is shit targeted as bad and not the rest. or if you called some one a poop(yes I looked this up)you're calling them stupid. so why isn't poop blip out if said on tv?

although what you state does make a lot of sence...I can't help but be curious of why shit and not poop is bad.

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Drake A.K.A. bocaj A.K.A MR.Drake
the HADB thug and keeper of Neil

[Drake]

Originally posted by DragonMage: I'm sure these words have been labeled as 'bad' resultant from the fact that the true context of these words are either 'nasty' (i.e. sh*t - excrement is gross) or sexual (repressive religion deems sex as either naughty or even perverse) or religiously inappropriate (Gd, for instance); therefore it would seem that, since the original intent of the word may be ugly, nasty, rude or naughty, etc. it becomes inappropriate to use the words in any OTHER context as well. ??? Make sense at all? I hope. EDIT: COOL! Mel and I posted similarly at the same time! Great minds! But you worded yours better.

"Make sense at all?" yes it does make some sence. read what I wrote to mel.

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Drake A.K.A. bocaj A.K.A MR.Drake
the HADB thug and keeper of Neil

[Drake]

Originally posted by Sazerac: Dear Drake, I was wanting to post sooner, but had to wait until I found the reference I was seeking on this. Barbara Lawrence, an English professor, wrote on this subject in an article many years ago entitled "Four-Letter Words Can Hurt You." It has since become one of the most-studied essays. I myself remember studying it in Senior English in High School. Here is a passage from the work: "Making love is a beautiful way of describing sex; however, many will argue that it is not always accurate. In a situation where making love is inappropriate, f--- is not always accurate either. F--- is not commonly accepted as an appropriate verb to describe sex. Yet among many of the younger generation f--- is the most common way to describe the act of sex. Why is it inappropriate? F--- comes from the German word ficken meaning 'to strike,' associated with the Latin word fustis, 'a staff or cudgel,' in combination with the Celtic word buc meaning 'a point, hence to pierce.' Strike and pierce are not pleasant; in fact they are violent, even brutal words that are used in disguise with the word f---. These words make sex seem worthless, violent, painful, and derogatory, instead of what it is really supposed to be to people sharing themselves with each other, for pleasure or love depending on the situation. The word that I find most offensive is screw. It comes from words meaning 'groove, nut, ditch, breeding sow, and swelling." Dr. Lawrence goes on to argue that obscene language is dangerous not only because of its sadistic origins, but also because of its mechanistic functions. Flaying the tabooed words for what they really are, she tries to educate the reader to choose their words more carefully. Dr. Lawrence questions why some words are acceptable to society while others, supposedly with the same meaning, are tabooed. "Four Letter Words Can Hurt You" responds that this question can no longer be answered simply because of "sexual hangups" or "class oppression." With their brutal and sadistic origins, the tabooed words have evolved over the years to reduce the act of intercourse and the parts involved to inhuman mechanics and instruments of those mechanics. When you strip away the identity or the human factor involved, you have reduced that person to inanimate object. This, Lawrence suggests, is the real reason these words are obscene. Lawrence then argues that these "dehumanizing descriptives" are particularly damaging to all forms of sexual intimacy. For they not only damage our vision of women by figuratively reducing them to a "skirt" or a "piece," but also encourage men to be consistently self-involved. If you haven't had a chance to read this essay in its entirety, I would recommend it...it's an excellent read, and a definite eye-opener, when you consider the origins of some of those words. It's a fairly popular essay, one that you can probably find in many college-level anthologies on expository writing. Cheers,

wow that was rather a nice piece of read. thanks it answerd a lot of what I was asking. it all makes just a little bit more sence now. I will read that full essay, I'm shure I can find it some where. but I'll have to try tommorow time to sleep. If I hurry I can still get 2 hrs...

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Drake A.K.A. bocaj A.K.A MR.Drake
the HADB thug and keeper of Neil

[Vassili_Zaitsev]

lalalallalalalalalalalalalalalalalala thats all im really hearing right now. No offense to you peeps. Seriously man their just words....... nice job on parenting. Honestly when im chillin with my friends im always like swearing and shit. I dont around my parents cause they'll start bitching at me about it. But they dont care as long as i dont say like ■■■■ and other words like that in the house. But seriously i never knew wal-mart sells edited shit. What kind of music u guys like? Also what should i get my girlfriend for her birthday?? She's gonna be 17. Me and her been together for 2 years. Forgot to tell u all, my bday was Nov 4th so late happy birthday heh. Yeh i just turned 17 too. Anyways reply and all thanks.

-Vassili

[Cloudbringer]

Welcome to Ironworks Vassili!

That done, I've got to note that if you are saying you don't understand the issue here, maybe you didn't read the posts above too carefully! Or you may simply never have learned that the words have meanings that are degrading or inappropriate for public use... that seems to be the whole reason for this thread. The idea that such language is now prevalent and many people, not necessarily just from your generation but predominantly it would seem, don't grasp the concept of offensive language being overused.

How many of us got sick of hearing the Valley Girl speak " like wow, like you know, like cooool!" ? I feel that way about hearing the word f**k everywhere I go. It's almost annoying because it seems to be the only word in some people's vocabulary! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Oh, Happy Birthday to you and your gf. A gift, huh? Boy that's hard since we don't know her. How about taking her to a concert or dinner or someplace SHE would really like to go?

Cloudy