Northern Ireland and Middle-East

Originally posted by Yorick: So let's look at this. The Arabic Muslims have how much land? Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya and the Gulf states. All except Saudi Arabia taken by force and invasion displacing absorbing or killing Kurds, Assyrians, Coptic Egyptians, Berbers, Jews and other peoples now minorities in lands that were their homelands for centuries. How many nations can the Jews live in under a Jewish State? One. Does that small area really mean that much to the Arabs when there are so many other places they can go and speak Arabic, practice Islam and live without the ostracism and persecution that Jews have had in every nation they've been scattered to?

Thats a slightly flawed argument bacuase the israelis Drove out the palestinians. Theirs is a jewsish state purely beacuse they have carried out organised ethnic cleansing on land stolen. That also assumes all arabs are the same relgiously and socially and will all welcome palenstinian refugees.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Thats a slightly flawed argument bacuase the israelis Drove out the palestinians. Theirs is a jewsish state purely beacuse they have carried out organised ethnic cleansing on land stolen. That also assumes all arabs are the same relgiously and socially and will all welcome palenstinian refugees.

Did they? I heard the Palestinians all left their homes voluntarily in anticipation of the WAR declared by the Arabic states against Israel! You have swallowed propoganda Dramnek. Do some honest reading on the subject and then come back. At the moment friend, your posts are sounding racist and bigoted.




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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Originally posted by Yorick: Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Thats a slightly flawed argument bacuase the israelis Drove out the palestinians. Theirs is a jewsish state purely beacuse they have carried out organised ethnic cleansing on land stolen. That also assumes all arabs are the same relgiously and socially and will all welcome palenstinian refugees. Did they? I heard the Palestinians all left their homes voluntarily in anticipation of the WAR declared by the Arabic states against Israel! You have swallowed propoganda Dramnek. Do some honest reading on the subject and then come back. At the moment friend, your posts are sounding racist and bigoted.

the palestinians left because of a massacre of the arab village of Dier Yassin by the Irgun and the stern gang.This is why they left,they feared the same fate.

[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: the palestinians left because of a massacre of an arab village by gangs of terrorists. This is why they left,they feared the same fate.

Dramnek? I'm not going to bother until you start quoting history accurately without your agenda.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

the palestinians left because of a massacre of the arab village of Dier Yassin by the Irgun and the stern gang.a quote from a man who was there perhaps?,
Jacques De reynier Swiss representitive of the red cross wrote in his diary

"the first thing i saw were people running everywhere,rushhing in and out of houses carrying sten guns,rifles,pistols and long ornate arab knives" "they seemed half mad.I saw a beutiful girl carrying a dagger still coverd with blood.I heard screams "we're still mopping up" My german friend explained.All I Could think of was the SS troops id seen in athens"

This event caused widespread panic among arabs in palestine causeing many of them to leave.


[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Yorick]

From www.palestine.net:

With Arab help, the British took Palestine from the Ottomans at the end of World War I in 1917-18. The Arabs willingly helped the British because they had been promised independence after the war.
Unfortunately, Britain had also made promises to the Jews -- and the two sets of promises were scarcely compatible. In the Sykes-Picot agreement made with France and Russia in 1916, Britain had promised to divide the regions and rule it with its allies. In 1917 in the notorious Balfour Declaration, Britain promised, in exchange for Jewish help, a Jewish "national home" in Palestine.
The Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917 was originally a letter sent from the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur James Balfour, to Edmond J. Rothschild, a prominent British Jew and supporter of Zionism. The letter stated the British government's support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people."
It made a further commitment on the part of the British government to make "the best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
With the Balfour Declaration, Britain's aim was to win the support of Jews for the Allied cause in World War I -- both those Jews in nations at war and those in neutral nations such as the United States. On 24 July 1922 the declaration was incorporated into the League of Nations mandate for Palestine which enumerated the terms under which Britain was given responsibility for temporary administration of the country on behalf of the Jews and Arabs living there.
The mandate lasted from 1922-1948, during which time the British found themselves, because of their contradictory promises, in a most difficult and untenable situation -- but one primarily of their own making. On one hand, the Zionists anticipated large numbers of Jews immigrating to Palestine and even begin to speak of the establishment of a Jewish state. On the other hand, the Palestinians feared dispossession at the hands of the Zionists and naturally rejected British promises to deliver their country into the hands of what were, by virtually any definition, outsiders.
Anti-Zionist attacks took place in both Jerusalem and Jaffa in 1920 and 1921, and a British policy statement in 1922 denied Zionist claims to all of Palestine, limited Jewish immigration but nonetheless supported the idea of a Jewish national home. The British proposed setting up a legislative council as had been done in many of their other territories, but the Palestinians, upon learning of how this was to be done, rejected the idea as discriminatory.
Despite British policy and its back-and-forth nature, first supporting one side and then the other, Jewish immigration did in fact increase. Indeed, after the Nazi victory in Germany in 1933, immigration rose sharply and in 1935 over 60,000 Jews came into Palestine. An Arab revolt based on fears of Jewish domination broke out in 1936 and lasted intermittently until 1939. By that date, Britain had once again limited Jewish immigration and purchases of land and by 1940, the struggle for Palestine had abated for the duration of World War II.
After the war, the struggle resumed and though Britain refused to admit 100,000 Jewish survivors of Nazi death-camps, large numbers gained entry to Palestine by illegal means. In 1947 Britain declared the mandate unworkable and passed the problem over to the United Nations.

After World War II, both Jews and Palestinians began to prepare for a decisive showdown.
Despite Palestinian numerical superiority (1,300,000 to 600,000), the Jews were better prepared. They had a working government under David Ben-Gurion and also possessed a well-trained and experienced army. The Palestinians were still in disarray from the Arab revolt and most of their leaders had been exiled.
The principal spokesman for the Palestinians, the Mufti of Jerusalem, refused to accept the existence of a Jewish state. The UN's suggestion of partition in 1947 was rejected by the Mufti, though the Jews agreed to it. Armed fighting by the military broke out and both sides used what is now called terrorism. The Palestinians were defeated.

The state of Israel was established as of 14 May 1948. At once, five Arab armies, in support of the Palestinians, attacked the new state but were ultimately defeated. At the end of what is known as the first Arab-Israeli War, Israel's victory gave it more territory while Jordan took the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip.
As a result of the war, 780,000 Palestinians became refugees. About half that number left in fear and panic while those remaining were compelled to make room for Jewish immigrants from both European and Arab countries.
The refugees spread into neighboring countries where they have maintained their Palestinian identity plus the desire to return to their homeland. With the establishment of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964, they had a governing authority. In 1967 during the war between Israel and the Arabs, Israel gained control of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and other previously Arab-controlled areas.


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

Regarding the Arab conquest:

Bernard Lewis writes:
The city of Medina, some 280 miles north of Mecca, had originally been settled by Jewish tribes from the north, especially the Banu Nadir and Banu Quraiza. The comparative richness of the town attracted an infiltration of pagan Arabs who came at first as clients of the Jews and ultimately sucqeeded in dominating them. Medina, or, as it was known before Islam, Yathrib, had no form of stable government at all. The town was tom by the feuds of the rival Arab tribes of Aus and Khazraj, with the Jews maintaining an uneasy balance of power. The latter, engaged mainly in agriculture and handicrafts, were economically and culturally superior to the Arabs, and were consequently disliked.... as soon as the Arabs had attained unity through the agency of Muhammad they attacked and ultimately eliminated the Jews.


Regarding the Arabic evacuation:

Haifa remains quiet. Yesterday produced a noticeable change in the general atmosphere and businesses and shops in the lower town were open for the first time in many days. Traffic started to move normally around the:town and people returning to the places of business filled the streets. In fact, Haifa presented a more normal appearance than it had done for a long while. Some Arabs were seen moving among the Jews in the lower town and German Colony area and these were allowed free and unmolested passage. An appeal has been made to the Arabs by the Jews to reopen their shops and businesses in order to relieve the difficulties of feeding the Arab population. Evacuation was still going on yesterday and several trips were made by 'Z' craft to Acre. Roads too, were crowded with people leaving Haifa with all their belongings. At a meeting yesterday afternoon Arab leaders reiterated their determination to evacuate the entire Arab population and they have been given the loan of ten 3-ton military trucks as from this morning to assist the evacuation.

Yesterday morning a Jew attempted to pass the drop barrier of Police H.Q. facing Palmers Gate wheeling a barrow. He was shot and killed by a Police sentry.

At 0640 hrs. yesterday Tireh village was again attacked with mortar fire. Casualties and damage not known.

(A.J. Bidmead.)
for SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE

Copy:-.District Comissioner, Haifa
Superintendent of Police, Haifa
File




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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. On the day that Israel declared its independence, the Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared "jihad", a holy war. He said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".1 The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!" 2 The armies of lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it.3

War in Palestine 1947-9. After the UN resolution of Nov. 29, 1947, to partition the country into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem as a corpus separatum. Palestinian Arabs (including veterans of the 1936-9 disturbances, members of Arab youth organizations, and police) initiated hostilities against the Jewish population. They were soon joined by volunteers from neighboring Arab states. Jewish forces were organized mostly in the Haganah (underground militia) with a fulltime component of about 4,000, mostly members of the Palmah.

The early attacks resembled the intifada of 1936-9, the Haganah restricting itself to defense of settlements and communications and limited retaliation. Early in 1948, the first attack on a Jewish village (Tirat Tzevi) occurred which proved unsuccessful. In the cities, the Arabs employed terrorist methods. During March, they concentrated on roads and on towns with a mixed population. The Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road was fiercely attacked and eventually, Jewish Jerusalem was cut off, except for communication by a few light aeroplanes. Meanwhile, the Jews had received a first consignment of arms from Czechoslovakia and the road to Jerusalem was eventually reopened.

A volunteer "Arab Liberation Army" led by the Syrian Fawzi el Kawukji failed in its attack on Mishmar ha-Emek in the Jezreel Valley, while a battalion of volunteers from Jebel Druze was routed when attempting to attack Ramat Yohanan near Haifa. In April, the Haganah counter-attacked, overrunning Tiberias, opening the road to Galilee, and capturing Haifa and the Katamon suburb in Jerusalem. Early in May, Safed and the southern Huleh district came into Jewish hands, together with Acre and most of western Galilee. Internal Arab resistance was thus ended.

But on May 15, with the termination of the Mandate, the states of the Arab League (armies from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt, and a token force from Saudi Arabia) invaded the country. The Arab Legion overran the Etzion bloc of settlements south of Jerusalem, two Jewish settlements north of the city, as well as the Sheikh Jarrah district of the city and the Jewish quarter of the Old City; the new city of Jerusalem was now under siege. However, Arab attempts to reach the center of the New City failed, largely because of the successful resistance of the outlying settlement of Ramat Rahel and the Notre Dame compound. The siege was eventually circumvented by the secret construction of a road ("Burma Road") for the transport of food and ammunition from the Jewish-held Plain of Aijalon. The Egyptians, attacking through the Negev, at first advanced rapidly, occupying Gaza and Beersheba, but were held back by a chain of Jewish settlements (Kephar Darom, Nirim, Beerot Yitzhak, and Negbah) and at Ashdod, south of Tel Aviv.

Plans for an Egyptian landing in the vicinity of Tel Aviv were foiled by the hastily-improvised Israel navy cooperating with the fledgling air force, and the Egyptians thereupon limited their objective to an unsuccessful endeavor to isolate the, Negev. The main Syrian attacks south of the Sea of Galilee were checked at Deganyah after an initial advance and driven back. Further N, however, the Syrians captured Mishmar ha-Yarden. Iraqi attacks in the nothern sector were met by stiff Israel opposition and were not pressed. The Lebanese entered Galilee but made little headway.

On June 11, a general truce came into effect which ended on July 8. During this time, a fundamental change had occurred in the balance of forces. The newly-established Israel Defense Army now cleared Lower Galilee and captured Nazareth, took Lydda and Ramleh in the central sector, widened the Jerusalem corridor (but failed to capture Latrun despite repeated attempts), and continued to hold the Egyptians in the south. The UN Security Council enforced a second cease-fire on July 19. This lasted until October when, in a week of heavy fighting, Beersheba was taken, the Egyptians driven back, and an Egyptian brigade surrounded at Faluja. In the north Kawukji unsuccessfully attacked the settlement of Manara; Israel forces, in 21 1/2 days, cleared Upper Galilee and captured villages inside the Lebanon. Fighting in the Negev was resumed in Dec. when the Egyptian front collapsed and Israel forces occupied almost the entire Negev, with the exception of the Gaza strip; they also entered the Sinai peninsula, but a British ultimatum led to the withdrawal of Israel forces from Egyptian territory.

The Egyptians then agreed to discuss armistice terms and an agreement was signed at Rhodes in Feb., 1949 . Subsequently, the Israel army occupied Elath at the S tip of, the Negev after its evacuation by the Arab Legion. In the ensuing months, separate armistice agreements were signed with Jordan, the Lebanon, and Syria; no agreement was, however, signed with Iraq or Saudi Arabia.4

1. Howard M Sachar, A History of Israel (New York: Knopf, 1979), p. 333.

2. Leonard J. Davis and M. Decter (eds.). Myths and facts 1982; a Concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (Washington DC: near east report, 1982), p. 199

3. In a formal cablegram to the UN Secretary General on May 15, 1948, the Secretary general of the Arab League declared that the Arab states rejected partition and intended to set up a "United State of Palestine." For a full text of the cablegram, see John N. Moore (ed.), The Arab-Israeli Conflict; Readings and Documents (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, abridged and revised edition, 1977), pp. 938-943.

4. The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, 1959

Source for 1,2 & 3: The Jewish Agency for Israel

This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz
Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst
Brooklyn, New York
E-mail to a friend



Source of picture above, "The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia",
Doubleday & Company, Inc. 1959

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

"As a result of the war, 780,000 Palestinians became refugees. About half that number left in fear and panic while those remaining were compelled to make room for Jewish immigrants from both European and Arab countries."

Ethnic cleansing.

And the website you linked to is under construction. If when isreal was created the majority of people in palestine did not want it created they had/have every right to contest its founding. ALso in the sources you quote it describes how the Isrealis and arabs used terrorist methods. That means israel founded their state on a riegn of terror, not an auspicious begining.

[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 09-08-2001).]