Thermal Depolymerization

Really cool new/not so new tech that can possibly have a shot at freeing us from dependance on Middle Eastern Oil and also give us near inexhaustible amounts of high quality light crude oil, along with recovering much of our wasted resources.

This technology has been tested in New Jersey on a small scale (read a few tons of material) and seems quite legitimate. Large scale (read hundreds of tons of material) testing is days away in the Midwest With the Cooperation of a major agriculture concern and Warren Buffet. If the large scale program works, we can expect to see Light Crude oil being produced from biological/organic waste products for roughly $15 to $20 a barrel and eventually down as low as $8 to $10 per barrel. The estimated production capacity if all orgaic waste in the US is processed with this technology is enormous.

Not only is light crude oil able to be produced, but gas and minerals can be extracted as well. This is truely one of those things that if it pans out, will change the world.

Has anyone else every heard of this process and read about it?

[ 04-08-2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Wilbur]

Yeah, the thingamobobber with the vegtables used as gas, I've heard of it. I certainly didn't know they were that close to being able to use it on a widespread, industrial scale though. Be cool if they did though, we wouldn't be fighting in Iraq right now if we had that, since they wouldn't have had the money to build weapons from their oil sales.

[Timber Loftis]

I don't know exactly how it compares to ethanol, MagiK, but I do know there are several problems with ethanol. For those of you who don't know, ethanol plants take raw vegetable inputs, like corn, and basically cook them into 200 proof ethanol. This ethanol can then be used as an alternative fuel.

Problems abound with this good-in-theory idea. First, from what I understand, ethanol is a poor fuel. In fact, it is seen by some as a shell game to make money by taking one worthless product (useless, ruined, or crappy vegetable matter) and turn it into another useless product. Second, the emissions from these plants are really stinky if rigid environmental controls aren't put on. I mean sickeningly stinky. Moreover, they violate the Clean Air Act pretty easily, emitting quite a few HAPs (hazardous air pollutants - the worst classification of pollutant under the act with the strictest control requirements). Some few of these plants have been run at a tolerable level, but this is not the overwhelming success it was touted to be.

So, I hope what you heard is right, but I also know there can be problems in implementation, as exhibited in a similar "organic fuel" industry.

Ethanol production would require too much land space for the raw material to be grown, and as you stated TL Ethanol is a poor fuel. Thermal Depolymerization will take nearly any waste product that has carbon in it (organic waste, plastics, old tires etc) and return Natural Gasses and Light Crude Oil and can be tuned to produce a variety of petro chemicals. I think this months Discover Magazine has an article on it. The plant in NJ Has proven very successful, enough to get Warren Buffet interested and to try a full scale industrial sized operation soon...it is supposed to be within days or weeks of opening. Really cool technology...the process may even be used to destroy our stockpiles of aging chemical weapons. From an ecology stand point, it seems like science fiction, of course, it will produce those nasty Petro-Chemicals that man kind uses so much but eco-types hate with a passion.

[Davros]

I'll reserve my judgement for a while - I wonder what Penn and Teller think of it? .

Seriously though, the process has been about and theorised for many years. The issue to date has not been the thermodynamics so much as it has been the economics. Up till now all the theorists have said it can be done but just not cheaply enough. Still as time and technology advance you would expect someone to come up with solutions for better cheaper faster.

I think if they only get the economics sorted to somewhere near break even then it is still very worthwhile pursuing environmentally. The next biggest issue will be the NIMBIES, cos it's gunna smell a tad and people will not want it in their back yards.

Your economic point is exactly right Davros, these guys are currently producing in N.J. Light Crude oil at roughly $20 a barrel...this is a competitive price, the key will be to see if this can be scaled up for large quantities...I have my fingers crossed.

[Sir Kenyth]

That takes care of the trash/waste pollution problem, not to mention the problem of limited petroleum resources. It doesn't do much for air quality though. If we could find a viable way to safely store significant electrical charges without waste, that would open up a whole new world for cleaner energy. Battery technology doesn't seem to be getting very far, very fast.

[Timber Loftis]

I'll admit I'm a NIMBY. Most of us are. I'm willing to pay to not have industrial crap in my back yard. If I had a yard. [img]graemlins/awcrap.gif[/img]

[john]

I read somewhere that G.M. is working on vehicles that run on hydrogen gas and the only exhaust is clean water vapor! They mentioned there should be production cars out by 2010..

[Azred]

I am definitely not a NIMBY. If they are willing to invest the money to purchase me a house I'll gladly let them put it in my back yard. [img]graemlins/1dizzy.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]