Do Human Beings Have a Soul?

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Ar-Cunin: quote: Originally posted by Cloudbringer: hmm... I think that I shall decide that uss doesn't exist today. I mean, after all, I have no empirical proof that he/she/it does....hmmm......

Sorry Cloudy - he posts far to much to be a figment of our imagination

And he's also right about the toothfarie etc. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE][img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Ok, but I had lunch with the tooth fairy last week, so please tell me I exist! *snicker*

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by uss: ok, thanks, conan! anyway.. 3.Why would the brain ascribe intension to only some of its actions? because the brain is sto-sto-stoopid! well, *I* have a cool and awesome brain and it doesnt do that [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Ummm, so you're fully aware of every movement you make... you are aware of you're brain interpreting sound waves to make the final sound you hear?? You are aware of every breath you take and force it to do so??

[Ar-Cunin]

[quote]Originally posted by Cloudbringer:

[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Ok, but I had lunch with the tooth fairy last week, so please tell me I exist! *snicker*

Oh - you exist alright Cloudy - you post way WAY

way

way

way

to much to be a figment of anyones imagination [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Azred: There is no way to quantify or scientifically verify the existence of a soul; this is a matter of faith only. Almost. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img] Kurt Godel proved, years ago, that in any axiomatic system there are true theorems that cannot be proven using the axioms (or theorems built from the axioms) alone. Since the universe is an axiomatic system (the "laws" of physics are the axioms) there must be things that are true that cannot be proven using the laws of physics. Make of that what you will. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] If we don't have a soul then we are nothing more than sophisticated bio-electric computers. Do you want to put yourself in the same group as your desktop? If we do have a soul then you must ask "Why?" and "What is its purpose?"; for these answers, simply fall back on the long tradition of theological thought from all over the world.

You also have to take into account that the "laws" of Physics are not sacrosanct and do not apply everywhere, once you cross the Schwartzchild radius of a Mass (usually termed "Black Hole" The laws of physics and causality do not apply. It was recently released in scientific journals that there is new evidence the "Universal" constants are not Universal nor constant..apparently the value of some of the constants has changed since the occurance of the Big Bang.

[img]smile.gif[/img] just food for thought [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: quote: Originally posted by uss: ok, thanks, conan! anyway.. 3.Why would the brain ascribe intension to only some of its actions? because the brain is sto-sto-stoopid! well, *I* have a cool and awesome brain and it doesnt do that [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Ummm, so you're fully aware of every movement you make... you are aware of you're brain interpreting sound waves to make the final sound you hear?? You are aware of every breath you take and force it to do so??[/QUOTE]Ya'll are mixing up the brain and the mind again.

The brain controlls all those actions and everything your body does, however, your MIND filters out a lot of the preceptions lest the inundation of information drive you mad.

Originally posted by Azred: If we don't have a soul then we are nothing more than sophisticated bio-electric computers. Do you want to put yourself in the same group as your desktop? If we do have a soul then you must ask "Why?" and "What is its purpose?"; for these answers, simply fall back on the long tradition of theological thought from all over the world.[/QB]

The human brain is a collection of cells that for the typical adult weighs about 3 lbs. It contains approx 100 billion neurons. The neurons form connections to each other called synapses. These synapses produce chemicals called neurotransmitters. There are about 1,000,000,000,000,000 synapses in the brain. A neuron is activated and the synapses connect to another neuron via a neurotransmitter through its synapses. Every thought you have, every movement you take, every memory you possess, is nothing more than a particular sequence of synapses. This is what we are, a collection of neurons sparking off a chain reaction to other neurons. When the brain is no longer activating neurons, we cease to exist.

Simply we are more sophisticated biological versions of computers.
No proof of the existence of a soul, therefore the most logical and rational conclusion is that we do not have one.
To assume that we do have a soul since you cannot prove that we don’t have one is flawed logic, on a par with saying that since we cannot prove that toys don’t come alive when we aren’t watching, they must do so.

[Azred]

Originally posted by MagiK: You also have to take into account that the "laws" of Physics are not sacrosanct and do not apply everywhere, once you cross the Schwartzchild radius of a Mass (usually termed "Black Hole" The laws of physics and causality do not apply. It was recently released in scientific journals that there is new evidence the "Universal" constants are not Universal nor constant..apparently the value of some of the constants has changed since the occurance of the Big Bang.

Well, no, they're not static and applicable everywhere; I was simply showing how Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is applicable to the concept of the soul. If souls exist, they would be something which cannot be proven by physical laws.
Incompleteness applies inside the Radius, also; whatever happens in there is true, but cannot be proven by the normal laws of physics.

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: To assume that we do have a soul since you cannot prove that we don’t have one is flawed logic, on a par with saying that since we cannot prove that toys don’t come alive when we aren’t watching, they must do so.

[img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img] I never said anything like this. You know what happens when you assume, yes? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[Cloudbringer]

Bah.. Drammie.. don't even think of telling me I don't have a soul again... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

SEE the thread referenced above. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[skywalker]

"Reincarnation.
Do you think so?
Well, it doesn't seem mathematically possible to me, man.

Uh, 'course at one time what we had on the earth was six people, you know. I avoid "two" because it's contoversial, but six most people agree - "f*ck, yeah, we had six at one time." Six people, six souls - cool. They died, souls went back to the place; six new people souls - still six souls. Now we have four billion people claiming to have souls. Someone is printing up souls, and it lowers their value, you know."

George Carlin: On The Road

Mark

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Simply I am a more sophisticated biological versions of a computer. No proof of the existence of a soul, therefore the most logical and rational conclusion is that I do not have one. To assume that I do have a soul since I cannot prove that I don’t have one is flawed logic, on a par with saying that since I cannot prove that toys don’t come alive when I am not watching, they must do so.

Thought I'd fix up your post so that you don't speak for me or Amber.

Mate, you've got to lose the royal "we" and start speaking for yourself.

I have proof of a soul. I can prove to myself that I have a soul. Can I prove it to you? Probably not, and why should I bother? Until you percieve the universe as more can what you can experience with the five senses, there will be no dialogue.

To everyone else bar Dramnek: where there is love, there is soul. Love cannot be proven scientifically either. You either know you're in love or you don't.

Check out the thread Cloudy linked. Much was said there that will only be repeated here.