Operation Tips

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Neb: Not only those who have to live with it should be concerned, other nations might be inspired by the US's example and decide to show that they're the US's allies in the "War against terrorism". Partially in the interest of becoming the US's buddy and partially so that they can oppress their own population into being less troublesome for them.

This too is already happening. I remember a proposal to let some of our less ethical allies interrogate prisoners from Afghanistan, since they would have less trouble with using torture. Makes you rethink why the administration really wants immunity from the new permanent War Crimes tribunal.

If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention.

Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth: Well excuse frickin' me for misunderstanding, you weren't being very clear. And I had yet to read a bit more when I posted that, so how about a bit of leeway here, huh? Let's just say, I could have said more. And call me an idiot once more (yes, I do interpret that as an attack on my intellect, which I take much more personal than my manhood) and you'll be none the happier. I use the word fear because that is what it is to me; fear. Or perhaps you didn't know that a Republican congressman won't listen to a 15-year-old Liberitarian who has no such patriotic views or any power at all?

Hrrrm I can't find anywhere that I called anyone an idiot either... As for

"Or perhaps you didn't know that a Republican congressman won't listen to a 15-year-old Liberitarian who has no such patriotic views or any power at all"

That is just a cop out, an excuse to not do anything. The TRUTH is, you do not KNOW what the congressman or senator will or will not think about what you write to him/her. Just because you cannot vote this year does not mean he isn't wanting you for a constituant later. (By the way you don't have to tell him your party affiliation) Children and groups of children have succeeded in getting legislation passed before. You can't expect the people in government to read your mind.

To date I have personally had great success with writing to my Congressman and or Senator (oh and Im a Libertarian/Independant when it comes to voting) I have had them help fix personal problems and I have been part of campaigns to get laws changed....it appears to ME (just my impression here) that most of the people complaining about what the government does or does not do..have never taken any action to voice their views...except to bitch at their friends or neighbors which accomplishes nothing.

Originally posted by Neb: Not only those who have to live with it should be concerned, other nations might be inspired by the US's example and decide to show that they're the US's allies in the "War against terrorism". Partially in the interest of becoming the US's buddy and partially so that they can oppress their own population into being less troublesome for them.

Errr I owe you debt...After some of the things I have read here at IW I had honestly not thought that anyone looked to the US with anything or for anything but disdain. Guess I need to get that idea out of my head....I think you were right on that count....what we do here may affect others.

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Neb: Not only those who have to live with it should be concerned, other nations might be inspired by the US's example and decide to show that they're the US's allies in the "War against terrorism". Partially in the interest of becoming the US's buddy and partially so that they can oppress their own population into being less troublesome for them.

This too is already happening. I remember a proposal to let some of our less ethical allies interrogate prisoners from Afghanistan, since they would have less trouble with using torture. Makes you rethink why the administration really wants immunity from the new permanent War Crimes tribunal.

If you are not outraged, you are not paying attention.[/QUOTE] question for you...if those "less ethical" allies captured the terror suspects and have them in their custody (or we are holding them for those allies)...what right does the US have to dictate how those prisoners should be treated? I mean after all we can't be bullies and make people play by our rules...or should we? I get so confused..are we supposed to impose our will on other nations...or should we mind our own business?

[SSJ4Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MagiK: Hrrrm I can't find anywhere that I called anyone an idiot either... As for "Or perhaps you didn't know that a Republican congressman won't listen to a 15-year-old Liberitarian who has no such patriotic views or any power at all" That is just a cop out, an excuse to not do anything. The TRUTH is, you do not KNOW what the congressman or senator will or will not think about what you write to him/her. Just because you cannot vote this year does not mean he isn't wanting you for a constituant later. (By the way you don't have to tell him your party affiliation) Children and groups of children have succeeded in getting legislation passed before. You can't expect the people in government to read your mind. To date I have personally had great success with writing to my Congressman and or Senator (oh and Im a Libertarian/Independant when it comes to voting) I have had them help fix personal problems and I have been part of campaigns to get laws changed....it appears to ME (just my impression here) that most of the people complaining about what the government does or does not do..have never taken any action to voice their views...except to bitch at their friends or neighbors which accomplishes nothing.

Erm, yes, perhaps you should re-read my last statement if you can't see where I was insulted... after all, I did make it quite obvious.

Personally, I don't think that he would listen. No matter what, since I don't have any money I'm almost positive that all the words I used would be rebuffed. Actually, back on the subject here, I can see how Bush will try to rally support for this too. He'll say something about how the manufacturing of all the equipment will be good for the economy and that nobody has any reason to be the least bit concerned, that they'll only go after suspected terrorists with this (although anyone could be one, remember that!). And everyone will cheer, because he's trying to capture them and ensure our safety! USA USA USA!

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: Errr I owe you debt...After some of the things I have read here at IW I had honestly not thought that anyone looked to the US with anything or for anything but disdain. Guess I need to get that idea out of my head....I think you were right on that count....what we do here may affect others.

Many former 'enemies' are trying to use the war on terrorism to get back into our good graces. Libya being one of the more recent ones in the last month.

[Neb]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Neb: Not only those who have to live with it should be concerned, other nations might be inspired by the US's example and decide to show that they're the US's allies in the "War against terrorism". Partially in the interest of becoming the US's buddy and partially so that they can oppress their own population into being less troublesome for them.

Errr I owe you debt...After some of the things I have read here at IW I had honestly not thought that anyone looked to the US with anything or for anything but disdain. Guess I need to get that idea out of my head....I think you were right on that count....what we do here may affect others. [/QUOTE]Ummm.... Thanks, I suppose. But I can't really see where I express anything that's supportive of the US. Not that I have anything against the US, all that annoys me is when americans get a "We're so much better than the rest of the world" attitude. Besides that I have quite a few american friends and I think that the US HAS contributed some good to the world. Lots of nice computer games for instance All hail Blizzard!

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: question for you...if those "less ethical" allies captured the terror suspects and have them in their custody (or we are holding them for those allies)...what right does the US have to dictate how those prisoners should be treated? I mean after all we can't be bullies and make people play by our rules...or should we? I get so confused..are we supposed to impose our will on other nations...or should we mind our own business

Sorry I should have mentioned the proposal was to turn prisoners over to them for interrogation. Sorry for the lack of clarity. As for the rules, if I am not mistaken the Geneva Conventions says that torture is a no-no.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: "Or perhaps you didn't know that a Republican congressman won't listen to a 15-year-old Liberitarian who has no such patriotic views or any power at all" That is just a cop out, an excuse to not do anything. The TRUTH is, you do not KNOW what the congressman or senator will or will not think about what you write to him/her. Just because you cannot vote this year does not mean he isn't wanting you for a constituant later. (By the way you don't have to tell him your party affiliation) Children and groups of children have succeeded in getting legislation passed before. You can't expect the people in government to read your mind. To date I have personally had great success with writing to my Congressman and or Senator (oh and Im a Libertarian/Independant when it comes to voting) I have had them help fix personal problems and I have been part of campaigns to get laws changed....it appears to ME (just my impression here) that most of the people complaining about what the government does or does not do..have never taken any action to voice their views...except to bitch at their friends or neighbors which accomplishes nothing.

Having worked in election politics in the 80's and 90's I can tell you they do listen. The general rule used by elected officials is that one letter equals the opinions of 500 voters since the volume of letters they get on most subjects is so low. The only two issues this is not true on are gun control and abortion, they generate much higher volumes of voter feedback. So when a congresswoman/man gets a couple dozen letters on a subject they will pay attention. Even if you are not of voting age, by the next election cycle you will be

I do have to disagree with this statement though "except to bitch at their friends or neighbors which accomplishes nothing." this does accomplish something, just like this thread did. It has brought the issue to your attention. That my friends is the basis of democracy, the next step is to let your elected officials now how you feel.

Originally posted by SSJ4Sephiroth: Erm, yes, perhaps you should re-read my last statement if you can't see where I was insulted... after all, I did make it quite obvious. You made it obvious you were upset for me calling you an idiot...which I never did Personally, I don't think that he would listen. No matter what, since I don't have any money I'm almost positive that all the words I used would be rebuffed. Actually, back on the subject here, I can see how Bush will try to rally support for this too. He'll say something about how the manufacturing of all the equipment will be good for the economy What Equipment? and that nobody has any reason to be the least bit concerned, that they'll only go after suspected terrorists with this (although anyone could be one, remember that!). And everyone will cheer, because he's trying to capture them and ensure our safety! USA USA USA!

Dude, I didn't have to send a single dollar to my congressman when he fixed my problem with the Navy and the IRS.

By taking the position you are taking, you are just making excuses for not actually even TRYing to do anything. You don't KNOW anything untill you observe the results. You only SUSPECT. You are cynical before you have even tried to do something, which is a total copout.
To put it in other words...what will it cost you to write to your congressman? A few cents for some paper, an Envelope and the big expense will be 37 cents for the stamp. Other than these you only loose a bit of time..so if you are concerned or afraid or whatever why not be a part of the solution and not just complain about it?