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Old 05-08-2004, 01:08 PM   #11
Dalamar Stormcrow
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Join Date: November 1, 2003
Location: My own little world
Age: 28
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I don't see what is so touching about a flag that stands for a nation built on bloodshed... People need to be respected, not fiber.We treat people like shit, and turn to a piece of red and blue carpet, and get all teary-eyed and respectful. I can understand that carpet could mean something to you, but still people need to be treated better than some colors.

[ 05-08-2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Dalamar Stormcrow ]
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Old 05-08-2004, 06:20 PM   #12
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Join Date: November 16, 2001
Location: Estonia
Age: 30
Posts: 2,775
Originally posted by Grojlach:
Originally posted by Elif Godson:
As to the the post about it just being a flag, no it isnt just a flag. The American Flag stand for the struggles that this country has been through, granted not all of them glamourus but it is a symbol that is known through out the world ! It should be shown proper respect, not only because of what it stands for, but for all the men, woman and children that have fought for and grown with it.

Hierophant, I absolutely agree with you.

Stormcrow, I think you should edit your post a bit.. As it currently stands, it is bound to anger somebody.

In Estonia, people don't get too excited about the flag, even though it's very original and beautiful. The combination is Blue-Black-White. Blue is referred to as the color of faith, loyalty and devotion; it also reflects the qualities of the sky, sea, and lakes. Black is said to be symbolic of the dark past of suffering of the Estonian people; the traditionally black jacket of the Estonian peasant during past times. White represents the striving towards enlightenment and virtue. White is also the color of birch bark and snow, and summer nights illuminated by the midnight sun.

(Just teaching some Estonian culture to y'all )
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Old 05-08-2004, 06:40 PM   #13
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Join Date: April 15, 2002
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Thanks, but i'd rather have some Estonian beer.
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Old 05-08-2004, 06:47 PM   #14
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Join Date: May 6, 2004
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Age: 42
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Just to be blunt: I dont like waving flags. Seen a lot of bad examples of peoples that waved flags around too excitedly.

And one more thing that in my view shows a big difference between the United States and my country. Its about being proud of that country. First, its alright to be proud , all the countries in the world have one or two, or in some cases even more things to be proud of.

But I have some problems with 'teaching' people to be proud of a country. For two reasons actually: first, when you are dealing with young people its very hard for them to see that there are things in a country or a nation to be proud of and at the same time that there are things in a country that you shouldnt be too proud of, children until the age of 12 think in either 'black' or 'white', the concept of 'gray' is hardly known to them. (at least thats what the current specialist say about that) So in my opinion these children are filled with the idea that the nation they live in is good without questioning.

Second, when these young people have the idea that their nation is good in all things, and that might not only be the nation itself, but also some other, more international phenomena, like capitalism, christianity or democracy, they lose their critical view on such issues, and what might even be more important, their critical view towards their own society. And in the future that can prove to be a great problem, because if you want to progress, or survive, whatever term you like best, you will always need to adapt and change...and therefor you need to be critical towards the past. and by the way that is the thing i am most proud of when it comes to my country, not the wooden shoes, not the invention of the stock-market, not the liberal views on weed and certainly NOT the queen...its that ability to see new opportunities

(im not a socialist-atheist-anarchist, im just
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Old 05-08-2004, 09:01 PM   #15
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Join Date: July 10, 2002
Location: I can see the Manhattan skyline from my window.
Age: 33
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I agree with Dalamar, to some extent. It's more important to be good to people than to value pageantry... I think that the values this country is supposed to have would be better served in action, not recited from memory.

Also cheers to Arjen... You shouldn't teach patriotism, because then it will be held for all the wrong reasons. It should be found later in life. Or not. Either way is fine.
PLAY THIS GAME. Seriously.

My heart is like my coffee. Black, bitter, icy, and with a straw.
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