fireballs and the like

jinta · 11-10-2003, 11:29 AM

I can't figure this out - my wizard's area effect spells, like fireball, keep hurting my fighters. OK, so I think that using strict 3rd ed rules, this is the way it goes, but is there any way to turn it off? I've looked and looked and looked...

thanks,
js

Micah Foehammer · 11-10-2003, 01:05 PM

Welcome to the forums. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Check out the descriptions of the various difficulty levels. Reducing the difficulty level may allow you to cast area effect spells without damaging your own party members.

motub · 11-10-2003, 01:36 PM

Turn it off? Turn what off? The fact that characters standing in the area of effect are.... affected?

OK, seriously, what you need to do is buff. If you know that your fighters are going to be in the area that's going to be fireballed-- because Fireball is a standard spell that you cast-- cast Protection From Fire, or Minor Elemental Barrier (or both) on them before battle starts. You can also try spending Feats on things like Dodge, and Ability points on Dexterity (so that they can Dodge or Evade better). Some types of characters get immunities or abilities based on race or class, which won't help you much now, but is something to think about if you find that you've misrolled one or more characters completely, and want to replace someone. There are also weapons and armor which confer certain immunities when equipped, which might help if you come across them.

You might also consider changing your strategies. I have a small (four-person) party-- one main fighter, one decoy/fighter and two magic users (one Druid, one Wizard). With such a small party, area-effect spells are vital, but with such a small party, I can't afford for any member to get "caught" by them, either.

So my strategy is to use the decoy (Monk of the Old Order/Rogue) to decoy the enemies into swarming her while the rest of the party waits out of sight. The Druid and Wizard/Ranger then cast trapping spells (Entangle/Web)-- but my Monk has an item which makes her immune to this. Actually, I have 3 such items, which I trade around the party as needed. So the enemies are entrapped, but my monk is not. Because she's a Monk/Rogue, she has very good Evasion, so the Wizard can fireball the group of enemies without fear, while the Monk wails away. If I give the Paladin one of the other Freedom of Movement items (or a potion of same, or if my Druid/Cleric of Selune casts Selune's Freedom on her), she can wade in and wail away as well. She is not immune to fire, though--as I learned the hard way in the Ice Temple-- so she needs to get buffed if the Wizard still has Fireballs to throw. On the other hand, the Paladin does have a very expensive piece of armor that makes her immune to spells like Stinking Cloud and CloudKill, so if I move her into the trapped group of enemies, and the Monk out, I can then cast one of those spells on the big knot of bad guys without harming anyone but the bad guys.

The points I'm making is that 1. Strategy is everything in this game and 2. You are in charge (which is why you should always turn the AI off if you happen to have it on).

Use what you've got. Potions, buff spells, loot items and bought items. I literally sold almost everything I had to get that armor for my Paladin (which is admittedly a HoF item appearing in the regular game due to the Weimer Ease-of-Use mod, but I think even the regular mode item is still pretty pricey, and nearly as useful). But it was something I needed to implement and improve my party's standard strategy, and it has been worth every penny for that reason.

Look at what you've got and plan a way to make it all work to your advantage. If no one can sneak, buy Potions of Invisibility. If you throw a lot of Web or Entangles, buy some Freedom of Movement potions-- as many as you can, whenever you see them. If you're going to keep your party out of the line of fire (literally), then have your Cleric memorize extra Summon Monster spells and skip any Cure Light/Medium/etc Wounds. Send the Summonses in to fight the enemies and keep those enemies away from your characters.

And control your own party, member by member, so that they are in the best position to use what they can, rather than blindly fighting as the AI dictates.

[ 11-10-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: motub ]

Peytin of Rothmire · 11-10-2003, 04:25 PM

Motub has hit it right on Jinta.
Turn off the AI. Most characters, particularly fighters, have some degree of built in AI anyway. You should also go to the scripts page (I don't remember exactly how to get there right now but it is from the same screen that shows each character's information). Set the scripts to "none". The AI (which is the lit up face in the bottom right of the screen) will be on each time you load a game so you must get in to the habit of turning it off each time you load.

Other than that, pay careful attention to the spell descriptions. If a spell mentions enemies or enemy creatures, it will only harm them. If a description only says creatures or doesn't specifically state enemies, it will harm anyone. Some spells only affect creatures with a low level of hit dice, so if your characters are of high level, they may avoid the effects just because of that. Generally, monks and rogues are best at avoiding area spells.

My personal style of gameplay is to use area spells like fireball right at the beginning of a battle, when the enemy is usually grouped together. For where I am right now (in the Goblin Warrens) this works great on gobs and orcs and will usually take some out right away, while damaging the stronger ones pretty well. As my characters advance in level, I will be more likely to send area spells into the midst of certain characters, like my monk and rogue.

If you haven't already done so, go to the options page and check out the auto-pause settings as well. They may prove helpful in some situations.

motub · 11-10-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peytin of Rothmire:
You should also go to the scripts page (I don't remember exactly how to get there right now but it is from the same screen that shows each character's information).

Go to the character record screen, then under the picture choose "Customize", then on that page, choose the "Scripts" button. From there, you can set the script to "none", but I think it's set to that by default anyway. It's better to turn the AI completely off, by clicking on the man holding the globe in the lower right hand corner of the interface. If his eyes are lit, the AI is on, if not, it's off.

As Peytin said, don't forget that if you reload a save, the AI will come back on, so make sure to turn it off again (that's messed me up more than a few times).

IMO, it's better to have the AI off rather than on but set to None because as Peytin also said, characters do have some limited AI of their own, and even when there's no script set, it seems like characters will still do things like unhide themselves by shooting at the first orc archer they see, when your intention was to sneak the character across the entire enemy camp to get behind an orc shaman and backstab it. I find it works better to definitevely let the game know that no one is to do anything but what I specifically tell them-- especially in those many battles where you're grossly outnumbered and can't afford mistakes like that.

ZFR · 11-11-2003, 03:51 AM

About AI, turning it to "default" would give them like you said some limited AI of thier own. Turning it to "none" is equivalent to turning off the glowing eyes.

Magness · 11-11-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by motub:
Turn it off? Turn what off? The fact that characters standing in the area of effect are.... affected?

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the first post.

Quote:

...my wizard's area effect spells, like fireball, keep hurting my fighters.

Kid: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.

Doctor: Then stop doing it.

It's really as simple as that. Learn the size of your area effect spells' effective areas then learn how to target them properly so that you won't hit your party members.

Do you think that a wizard who's just learned how to cast a fireball magically knows how to target fireballs close to a party? No, the wizzy would have to learn by experience. Just like a soldier would need to learn how close is too close when tossing a grenade.

The posters above make good points about turning off the party AI. Having your tanks running loose around the battlefield only makes it tougher for a mage to use his best spells.

11-10-2003, 01:05 PM	#2
Micah Foehammer Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 3,253	Welcome to the forums. [img]smile.gif[/img] Check out the descriptions of the various difficulty levels. Reducing the difficulty level may allow you to cast area effect spells without damaging your own party members. __________________ “Every tavern’s an opportunity, I say.”

11-11-2003, 03:51 AM	#6
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	About AI, turning it to "default" would give them like you said some limited AI of thier own. Turning it to "none" is equivalent to turning off the glowing eyes. __________________ ZFR

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11-10-2003, 11:29 AM	#1
jinta Welcomed New User Join Date: October 2, 2003 Location: Berkeley, CA Age: 55 Posts: 1	I can't figure this out - my wizard's area effect spells, like fireball, keep hurting my fighters. OK, so I think that using strict 3rd ed rules, this is the way it goes, but is there any way to turn it off? I've looked and looked and looked... thanks, js

11-10-2003, 01:36 PM	#3
motub The Magister Join Date: March 14, 2003 Location: Netherlands Age: 61 Posts: 107	Turn it off? Turn what off? The fact that characters standing in the area of effect are.... affected? OK, seriously, what you need to do is buff. If you know that your fighters are going to be in the area that's going to be fireballed-- because Fireball is a standard spell that you cast-- cast Protection From Fire, or Minor Elemental Barrier (or both) on them before battle starts. You can also try spending Feats on things like Dodge, and Ability points on Dexterity (so that they can Dodge or Evade better). Some types of characters get immunities or abilities based on race or class, which won't help you much now, but is something to think about if you find that you've misrolled one or more characters completely, and want to replace someone. There are also weapons and armor which confer certain immunities when equipped, which might help if you come across them. You might also consider changing your strategies. I have a small (four-person) party-- one main fighter, one decoy/fighter and two magic users (one Druid, one Wizard). With such a small party, area-effect spells are vital, but with such a small party, I can't afford for any member to get "caught" by them, either. So my strategy is to use the decoy (Monk of the Old Order/Rogue) to decoy the enemies into swarming her while the rest of the party waits out of sight. The Druid and Wizard/Ranger then cast trapping spells (Entangle/Web)-- but my Monk has an item which makes her immune to this. Actually, I have 3 such items, which I trade around the party as needed. So the enemies are entrapped, but my monk is not. Because she's a Monk/Rogue, she has very good Evasion, so the Wizard can fireball the group of enemies without fear, while the Monk wails away. If I give the Paladin one of the other Freedom of Movement items (or a potion of same, or if my Druid/Cleric of Selune casts Selune's Freedom on her), she can wade in and wail away as well. She is not immune to fire, though--as I learned the hard way in the Ice Temple-- so she needs to get buffed if the Wizard still has Fireballs to throw. On the other hand, the Paladin does have a very expensive piece of armor that makes her immune to spells like Stinking Cloud and CloudKill, so if I move her into the trapped group of enemies, and the Monk out, I can then cast one of those spells on the big knot of bad guys without harming anyone but the bad guys. The points I'm making is that 1. Strategy is everything in this game and 2. You are in charge (which is why you should always turn the AI off if you happen to have it on). Use what you've got. Potions, buff spells, loot items and bought items. I literally sold almost everything I had to get that armor for my Paladin (which is admittedly a HoF item appearing in the regular game due to the Weimer Ease-of-Use mod, but I think even the regular mode item is still pretty pricey, and nearly as useful). But it was something I needed to implement and improve my party's standard strategy, and it has been worth every penny for that reason. Look at what you've got and plan a way to make it all work to your advantage. If no one can sneak, buy Potions of Invisibility. If you throw a lot of Web or Entangles, buy some Freedom of Movement potions-- as many as you can, whenever you see them. If you're going to keep your party out of the line of fire (literally), then have your Cleric memorize extra Summon Monster spells and skip any Cure Light/Medium/etc Wounds. Send the Summonses in to fight the enemies and keep those enemies away from your characters. And control your own party, member by member, so that they are in the best position to use what they can, rather than blindly fighting as the AI dictates. [ 11-10-2003, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: motub ]

11-10-2003, 04:25 PM	#4
Peytin of Rothmire Manshoon Join Date: September 20, 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Age: 53 Posts: 151	Motub has hit it right on Jinta. Turn off the AI. Most characters, particularly fighters, have some degree of built in AI anyway. You should also go to the scripts page (I don't remember exactly how to get there right now but it is from the same screen that shows each character's information). Set the scripts to "none". The AI (which is the lit up face in the bottom right of the screen) will be on each time you load a game so you must get in to the habit of turning it off each time you load. Other than that, pay careful attention to the spell descriptions. If a spell mentions enemies or enemy creatures, it will only harm them. If a description only says creatures or doesn't specifically state enemies, it will harm anyone. Some spells only affect creatures with a low level of hit dice, so if your characters are of high level, they may avoid the effects just because of that. Generally, monks and rogues are best at avoiding area spells. My personal style of gameplay is to use area spells like fireball right at the beginning of a battle, when the enemy is usually grouped together. For where I am right now (in the Goblin Warrens) this works great on gobs and orcs and will usually take some out right away, while damaging the stronger ones pretty well. As my characters advance in level, I will be more likely to send area spells into the midst of certain characters, like my monk and rogue. If you haven't already done so, go to the options page and check out the auto-pause settings as well. They may prove helpful in some situations.

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