Death,Kill, Maim, Destroy...

[Sazerac]

RudeDawg wrote:

There are hack-and-slash games, there are strategy games, there are FPS, there are CRPGs (RPGs are different). Many will argue that we can play them anyway we'd like, but the intent of the artist is for a singular purpose. I remember spending MONTHS preparing a world for the RPG I was DMing. The group I played with loved it. Several weeks into the adventure, one of the group brought in a friend. He ruined it. For the group. For me. I watched him ruin a creation I had spent months building, and when I told him he had to leave, he called me many a name that I won't type. He claimed that I was stopping his "creative flow". He purposedly, sysematically, tried to ruin everyone else's game, and he claimed he had the "right" to do it. I never played with him again, it wasn't worth the trouble.

A HUGE argument in favor of getting to know your players well before you start a game with them! In my DM'ing days, any new players had to go through an interview process with me, as if they were applying for a job. I could spot a bad penny right off, and would urge them, gently but firmly, to seek another group for gaming. This is one reason why I would never game at a convention with people that I don't know and don't trust.

A classic example of this same thing occurred right here on this board a few months back when, in the middle of Adam's progressive storyline, someone introduced a new NPC, only to have some yay-hoo KILL her in the next immediate frame! Then we had to have a deus ex machina resurrection of her (which was lame) so they storyline could continue...then due to constant interference from others, it all went south eventually. One reason why I'm NOT in favor of the open RP forum being proposed in GD right now...unless there are some strict rules, guidelines, and at least 3 trustworthy moderators of that forum! I may be cynical, but I know human nature, and what I've seen of it is rarely predictable, or pretty.

So sorry this happened to you, RudeDawg. Was the gaming environment recoverable afterward?

-Sazerac

[Sazerac]

Oh, one other thing...the only thing I would disagree with you on, RudeDawg, is the reliance on a Tolkienesque universe to define what is "Elf" or "Dwarf", etc. Tolkien was a master, but not the only one. There may well be fantasy worlds out there where Elves wield two-handed broadswords and war hammers, and Dwarves use slings and rapiers. I don't know...but I wouldn't dismiss it wholeheartedly.

It's like the Gygaxian insistence on the color-coding of Dragons. We had a post recently about that, something about Erathsmedor being the "wrong color" because he breathed fire and he was a green dragon. The color-coding of dragons was something that Gygax came up with for simplicity in rule interpretation of 1st edition AD&D, and it's stuck...but how many people now cow-tow to it without exploring other possibilities.

Yes, it's important to maintain standards...but it's equally important to be flexible and redefine others.

Just my opinion.

-Sazerac

[skywalker]

Actually, it would be better to define your characters in such a way that it follows what you believe your characters are. Create your own background for elf or dwarf histories and stick to that in the game you're playing. I think that would be more creative, role playing-wise.

Mark

[RudeDawg]

Originally posted by Sazerac: Oh, one other thing...the only thing I would disagree with you on, RudeDawg, is the reliance on a Tolkienesque universe to define what is "Elf" or "Dwarf", etc. Tolkien was a master, but not the only one. There may well be fantasy worlds out there where Elves wield two-handed broadswords and war hammers, and Dwarves use slings and rapiers. I don't know...but I wouldn't dismiss it wholeheartedly. It's like the Gygaxian insistence on the color-coding of Dragons. We had a post recently about that, something about Erathsmedor being the "wrong color" because he breathed fire and he was a green dragon. The color-coding of dragons was something that Gygax came up with for simplicity in rule interpretation of 1st edition AD&D, and it's stuck...but how many people now cow-tow to it without exploring other possibilities. Yes, it's important to maintain standards...but it's equally important to be flexible and redefine others. Just my opinion. -Sazerac

I wholeheartedly agree !!! I've played many a game in the Paladium universe, specifically Fantasy and RIFTS. Thier backstories on elves and dwarves are TOTALLY different. And, I played the Warhammer games. A VERY different viewpoint of elves. ShadowRun, I played an elf-hacker. And so on..

Understand this, I am a gaming fan. I love the whole hobby. I try to get others involved, both in CRPGs, but, more importantly to me, RPGs. All the geenres, all the systems. Whatever someone wants to play, I encourage that.

I'm a big fan of GURPS, cuz it has universal rules to adapt any gaming system to it's own. Mixing ShadowRun and RIFTS mad for some memorable gaming sessions.

In BG / BGII, I wanted to stick with the Tolkien-esque feel of the original Gygax D&D. I was kinda hyped-up with the release of the 3rd ed rules, and the LOTR movie. I made my choice with this game, to play ala' Tolkien.

Arcanum, though.... DWARVES WITH GUNS !!!

Oh yes, Sazerac. The gaming environment was mine. The jerk wasn't given a choice, but he did take his friend, an important part of our group, with him. I was young (15 or 16)and learned from that. I never forced the players to play a certain path, but, once they chose an alignment, you played it. He was disrespecting the players, and me. I won't let that happen.

Skywalker, I too believe that it is ultimately the gamers choice of what he wants to play. Many of my characters have had a very jedi approach to things, and it served me well even in fantasy games.




------------------

The RudeDawg
Known in these Forgotten Realms as Perin LightEyes
and my girlfriends, Pamila and Pfil

[Jafin]

When I first went through, I was sort of a stat monger. I wanted the perfect character and I had the strategy guide which told me how much experience Erathsmedor and Oakenmir were worth so I killed them. I felt rather bad about Oakenmir, since he had never done anything. Erathsmedor was a bit annoying, interrupting stout trade, breathing fire on my party, etc. etc. etc. However, this time I go through the game, I'm going to play very good. I won't kill ANY NPC's at all, unless its a choice between me and them, which doesn't come up very often. All in all, I think it's actually a good idea to role-play however you want, whether inherently good or evil. And even, one particular character in your party could go one way (Paladin being Good Incarnate) and the other, a completely different direction (what do Assassins do?).

-Jafin

[Dr.Pick]

This has been simply facinating! A really wonderful thread! As i'd mentioned in a similar thread recently, I'm running a test group to become familiar with the game, and I let them get away with murder to see what can be done. However, it actually started out as an error in attacking an NPC by mistake, and I hadn't found this web site, so I didn't know what to do about it. I just allowed them to be evil after that, and turned them into my test group because I really don't care about them. The group I really like are purely good, and won't kill any NPC's that they're not suuposed to. e.g. You're supposed to kill Scabban, and you're actually doing him a favor by releasing him from the corruption he got into. Kerrielle is sweet and kind and helpful, but I had to reload the game a few times becase she got in the way of battles by the Windmill. Same story with Jathil(sigh). Nonetheless, I don't like the evil group, even though they get more experience and some better stuff, like Torin's bow, which my good group won't even steal from him because stealing is wrong as well. I trained one character to steal a little, but I knew I couldn't have him stealing even to remove weapons from opponents, so I stopped. Let it be a "fair fight". I agree that the developers planned to have repercussions for breaking the oath, and weren't able to include it. Having the choice throughout the game would have been cool as far as realism goes. Hey, that's a part of life. Making moral choices. It reminds me of the CRPG game, "Black and White" which came out recently. Very interesting concept. Haven't bought it, though I am interested.

+Dr.Pick

[skywalker]

Bump up for the new members to read!


Mark