Do science and magic mix?

[K T Ong]

In many fantasy novels, films, TV shows, comics and games, you find medieval sword-and-sorcery existing side by side with futuristic high-tech stuff. Do you think it's a workable combination, or do you think it's just dumb and the two should be kept separate? Why? Or do you want to say 'it depends'?

This question can be 'extended' to the real world too, I reckon. Assuming magic and the supernatural actually do exist in the real world (and there appears to be a great deal of compelling anecdotal evidence in favor of that), are they perhaps just special domains of reality which are not yet fathomed by science but someday will be? Conversely, could science perhaps be viewed as... a form of magic, involving the manipulation of 'lower' strata of reality?

[Lifetime]

Concerning movies and television, I believe that science and magic can be done very convincingly: it just hasnt been tried with enough success yet. Take a look at games like Arcanum, or Wizardry 8. There's tonnes of spellcasting in there, as well as guns and gadgets. Or Warhammer, possessing both in spades. I think if someone could make a good workable story featuring both these elements, it would make a good movie. TV tends to be rather trashy so I dont watch that much. Magic just issint that common in movies because it seems like such a cheap cop-out.

As for science/magic, this is based on personal opinion but I believe that they are different sides of the same coin. They are linked, but not quite. In science there are some pretty magical and miraculous things such as quantum physics or nano-technology(creating something out of nothing..magic? I think so)
And magic.. magic is merely the unexplainable. Making something appear out of thin air might seem magical until a solution is found, then it becomes a cheap trick. Fireballs, Lightning bolts and Earthquakes? They cant be understood until magic becomes a science, as in, scientists begin to study such phenomenon and how certain individuals can have mastery over such elements. Its not magic, it just hasnt been explained yet. If someone could blow up things with a thought, or conjur things from thin air, and the effect could be duplicated with relative success, then it becomes the science of magic. My humble opinion. Good to have another Singaporean on the boards! Welcome!

[LennonCook]

In the Quest For Glory series, they had these elements coexisting rather well...QFG4 was set in a primative land with gypsies and vampires... your character could possibly cast spells... there was also a scientist, Dr. Cranium... he had some basic experiments set up, such as a sendup basically of Frankenstines Monster... he does not believe in magic, and gives u a magic scroll to prove it (only if u have magic though)... when you read it, it disapears. He says it wasnt even good parchment... fell apart in your hands. So, yes they can coexist, but should be at war with one another or something similar...
But advanced science such as guns and computers do not belong in such a setting.

[Kaz]

Shadowrun is interesting, it's an RPG-world - Earth in the year 2050. Magic has returned, so it is a sci-fi/magic kind of setting. Works very well, there being down- and upsides to both magic and tech.
IMO, "magic" in RL is only a branch of science we haven't discovered yet. If someone could make things disappear, make things appear, hurl balls of fire, etc. it would seem like magic to us. However, the things WE can do now thanks to our technology would seem like magic to anyone from a less advanced culture. So it is reasonable to assume that if "magic" exists, it can be scientifically and logically explained.

[K T Ong]

Thanks very much for the warm welcome, Lifetime. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm inclined to agree that, if magic exists, it will be just another feature of the universe waiting to be fully understood. But there would seem to be certain problems. For one thing, many real life magicians, such as Alestier Crowley, Dion Fortune, Paracelsus and others already have theories regarding how and why magic works. Do they count as explanations or not? Why? The trouble is that most of these theories seem to take for granted the agency of various supernatural beings like spirits etc in the workings of magic. Science, on the other hand, largely works within a paradigm whereby such things as spirits etc are dismissed as rubbish and all you have is dead, indifferent matter and energy moving about in accordance with physical laws which somehow just happen to be there. Can such a mindset ever accommodate those theories of magic? Should it? Maybe it is the scientific side of things that's limited and science must change its basic outlook (by accepting the existence of supernatural beings?) in order to offer a satisfactory account of magical phenomena. Or maybe all the so-called magical phenomena can ultimately be explained without recourse to spirits and demons, and magic will be seen as something like say electricity. It ought to be fascinating speculating on such things.

As for films, books, games etc, I personally prefer that there be some exploration (in the book, film etc) of how the two can go together, some attempt at providing some kind of (imagined) explanation of how both can exist in the same world (rather than simply some high-tech stuff and some magical stuff put together in a setting for the fun of it, period). Perhaps all magic is actually just psionics, except most people find it too much of a bother to develop their psionic powers as a means of manipulating the physical world and therefore just let their powers remain dormant and resort to science and technology? Or maybe magic is a power granted by the gods to those who worship them, but there are impious disbelievers who seek to arrogate to themselves the power of the gods by imitating their powers through science?

Ah, well, just some rambling on my part...

[Kaz]

[img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I completely forgot to welcome you!

WELCOME TO IW!

Okay

I also believe that some of the rules and ideas of science would need changing to accomodate magic, but the main body of science would remain intact. I don't consider magic and science to be mutually exclusive.

[K T Ong]

Thanks for the welcome, Kaz. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Konfuzed and Zany]

Magic is is using shortcuts to start chemical reactions [img]smile.gif[/img]

[K T Ong]

...duhhhh... Is that called alchemy?

[Konfuzed and Zany]

quote:

---

Originally posted by K T Ong:
...duhhhh... Is that called alchemy?

---

No
It ain't