Improved Faldorn (spoilers, but who cares)

[SixOfSpades]

Ways in which Improved Faldorn is a Cheating B****:

• Human with 19 STR
• Pure Level 15 Druid, with 128hp and 4 ApR (Legal maximum is 102 hp and 1 ApR)
• She Shapeshifts, so she can't be a Totemic Druid, yet she has two Spirit Animals with her
• Both combatants are supposed to be stripped naked, yet she still carries a Staff of Thunder and Lightning (although I suppose I should be grateful it's not something like Sanchuudoku or TorGal's Claw)
• Has Bhaalspawn abilities for some reason
• Since when do Druids know Righteous Magic?
• Casts Nature's Beauty, which in itself is reason enough she should be dragged out & flogged
• Casts Nature's Beauty again
• For some reason, is permanently immune to Cold, Magic Cold, and Electricity. Perhaps Weimer based her *.CRE on Improved Bodhi?
• Upon entering combat, gets auto-buffed with an incredible array of spells that give her:
  • an extra 20 hitpoints
  • immunity to Fire and Magic Fire
  • 25% Magic Resistance
  • +6 to Strength (for a total of 25)
  • 25% Resistance to all Physical damage
  • Regenerates something like 3 hp per round
  • Immunity to Nature's Beauty (Hey, I think I smell something. Hypocrisy, isn't it?)
  • Immunity to all weapons of less than +3 enchantment (Improved Bodhi strikes again)
  • Every single buffing spell available to Druids (and even some that aren't), for free and all at the same time, whether she had them memorized or not

There are dozens more lines under her "Affects" tab, but I've only copied down what I feel pretty sure in translating. Those more familiar with dissecting this sort of thing are welcome to add to this list of Ways in which Improved Faldorn is a Cheating B****.


Oh, and if anyone out there has ever beaten Improved Faldorn (legally), please assure us that it can be done! Preferably without using a Rebalanced Shapeshifter or Anti-Paladin->Druid.

[Lord]

In the Tactics readme, it even directly states some of that:

This component makes the Druid Grove quest (from Trademeet) just a bit more difficult (to the point where the poison or trying to walk around Kyland Lind actually almost become attractive). The swamp outside the grove is now replete with flavorful (but not actually difficult) druidic creatures (e.g., giant mushrooms, shambling mounds, wyverns, more trolls, earth elementals). The generic Shadow Druids are now half-decent tenth-level totemists who might actually scare you with an insect plague. The big change is Faldorn herself -- now she's truly "stronger than ever with the aid of this grove". Expect to be on the business end of some 7th level druid spells (e.g., creeping doom, nature's beauty, fire storm). Faldorn's claws strike like the Staff of Thunder and Lightning. [ This has the side effect of fixing that bug in Ease Multi-Stronghold that causes Faldorn to do nothing if you challenge her with a non-druid, but not the Ease Multi-Stronghold "feature" that prevents you from having Cernd do the fight for you.

[SixOfSpades]

"State" is not the same as "justify."

I liked the Improved Druid Grove. Improved Faldorn sucks warthog unmentionables.

[Lord]

I don't have Improved Druid Grove installed to check Faldorn's stats, so how many proficiencies does she have? She shouldn't be able to have more than 1 proficiency in each weapon category.

[SixOfSpades]

Her proficiencies are all legal. It's her Base ApR that's set to 4.

[Leslie]

And if she is so bloody tough let at least Cernd kick her butt - but he dies too.

[ 06-23-2004, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: Leslie ]

[Hank Parsons]

If Six says it sucks warthog unmentionables, I believe him that it isn't fair/fun/etc. However, Six, are you totally opposed to Tactics "cheating" to the very letter of the law? In real p'n'p D&D, the DM can fudge skills in any direction he pleases, especially to make an enemy more challenging. That's the point of Tactics, it seems to me. The game rules apply to the players; the dungeon master is free to create an NPC or a creature beyond the normal limitations of their race or class, to provide challenge to the players and their limitations. Giving a human enemy 19 STR doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Of course the DM should still make vaulnerabilities for the enemy, else it would be impossible and no fun for the player. What I hope to glean from SixOfSpades reviews, is not whether Tactics cheats, but whether a Tactics battle is winnable/challenging/and fun.

[SpongeBobTheDestoyer]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: I liked the Improved Druid Grove. Improved Faldorn sucks warthog unmentionables.

I second that! Everything on the way to Faldorn was a well deserved upgrade but she was ridiculous. When I gave my feeble attempt I had Cernd at a respectable level where he could cast a couple level six spells but no seventh. I prebuffed him with every potion he could swallow and cast Improved Invisibility and a couple other spells on him. I got her with an Insect Swarm to start and summoned a nymph. Then summoned a fire elemental and cast Wondrous Recall. Another nymph and Insect Swarm later I did what little else a real druid could casting doom and some similar minor spells and shapechanging into a werewolf and not hitting her. The two Insect Swarms never got past her ironskins or did any damage. They did manage to disrupt her spell casting but who cares, she doesn't even need to cast ANY spells to defeat a high level druid.

I've got a NRL party going and I plan on getting to her right before Improved Irenicus since I can't face her afterwards.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by SpongeBobTheDestoyer: I've got a NRL party going and I plan on getting to her right before Improved Irenicus since I can't face her afterwards.

Actually, if you're playing No-Reloads, I would strongly advise avoiding Faldorn altogether. The way Weimer has it now, pretty much the only* way you can beat her is through luck. At least nothing truly essential is blocked off: You won't become the Hero of Trademeet, and you can't do the Trademeet Crypt or the Skin Dancer quests, but at least you can buy things like Blackblood, Tansheron's Bow and the Belt of Inertial Barrier.

Originally posted by Hank Parsons: Six, are you totally opposed to Tactics "cheating" to the very letter of the law? In real p'n'p D&D, the DM can fudge skills in any direction he pleases, especially to make an enemy more challenging.

I have no real objection to fudging the rules, provided that A) It's done in moderation and B) There's a good reason for it.

Example 1: There is a Demi-Lich (reasonably) late in the game that is immune to instant death. This means that it is immune to the Undead-slaying abilities of weapons like Azuredge, and also to the Turn Undead ability of a very high-level Cleric (and a party Cleric could very well be high-level enough to Turn a Demi-Lich by the time they meet this one). Now, this is a cheat. But all it really does is make the battle less contingent on cheesy tactics like Reloading until the Demi-Lich fails his Save vs. Death.

Example 2: In the Improved Twisted Rune, the Rune Assassins can all see invisible targets. This makes less sense than in the previous example, since it'd be next to impossible for a Thief to hear somebody sneaking around in a room with tons of spells flying all over the place. I'd have preferred having them actually Detect Illusions, but at least Weimer has this in his defense: The Rune Assassins really aren't much of a threat anyway, and they could see the invisible even in the original, unmodded game (go to the Tanner's basement and see for yourself).

Example 3: TorGal's Claw, on top of its being a +3 weapon with some rather nice on-hit enchantments, does 2D6+3 damage. I think the only other SoA weapons that can beat it in terms of raw damage are Warblade and Carsomyr, at 1D12+4 and 1D12+5, respectively. Since when does a Dagger do more damage than a Two-Handed Sword?

Giving a human enemy 19 STR doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

19 STR is indeed not truly overblown, but it is a cheat. I wouldn't complain about it in something like my Tactics Review, but it deserves being listed here. Especially since in BG1, Faldorn's stats were 12/15/11/10/16/15. Boy, I wonder how much steroids she needed to take to crank herself up to 19/18/16/13/18/15. And what a shock for the player who actually had Faldorn in the party at the end of BG1!

What I hope to glean from SixOfSpades reviews, is not whether Tactics cheats, but whether a Tactics battle is winnable/challenging/and fun.

Hmmm....I thought that my Reviews covered the fun/challenging points pretty well....can you quote any examples you found insufficient or misleading? True, I did (and will) point out any noticable instances of cheating, but note that I also gave each one of those a qualifier on how it affected gameplay: I shrugged off the matter of the Rune Assassins mentioned above, but I was not so forgiving of Stalman's infinite "Heal, Heal, Zone of Sweet Air" B.S.

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Hank Parsons: Of course the DM should still make vaulnerabilities for the enemy, else it would be impossible and no fun for the player.

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: The way Weimer has it now, pretty much the only* way you can beat her is through luck.

* After sleeping on it, I have developed a way by which a well-balanced party could theoretically beat Improved Faldorn without actually cheating.

1) Keep Jaheira in the party.
2) Wait until your primary Wizard is around Level 20. (Putting Jaheira around Levels 16/14, with about 4 HLAs.)
3) Return to the Druid Grove, and buff Jaheira up with everything that lasts longer than 1 turn.
4) Have Jaheira cast all her Insect Plagues and Creeping Dooms on somebody with Boots of Speed, who keeps running away from the bugs to postpone them.
5) Finally, shield Jaheira with a Death Ward, have her Doom herself, and cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on her until it sticks.
6) Have Jaheira cast Regeneration on herself for good luck.
7) Have your frantically-running-away-from-insects guy talk to Faldorn, and start the "duel."
8) Hope that Otiluke's does what it says, and makes Jaheira immune to pretty much everything. Since it was cast by a Level 20 caster, Faldorn (who is Level 15) has about a 1% chance of Dispelling it.
9) Have your high-level Wizard(s) empty all their Remove Magics as close to Faldorn as they can get them. Provided Faldorn's buffs are dispellable at all, a Level 20 caster should have a 75% chance of dispelling them.
10) When you're out of Remove Magics, finally have frantically-running-away-from-insects guy run over to the edge of the pit, close to Faldorn. The bugs will hit him and spread to her and her damned Spirit Animals.
11) Have Jaheira cast Cure Disease so she can see again.
12) Hit Faldorn's side of the pit with every damn Area-of-effect spell you've got, except the ones that do Cold or Electricity damage.
13) If Faldorn is still alive by the time the Otiluke's expires, have Jaheira ready to Shapeshift Fire Elemental, and Greater Whirlwind for dear life.

After going through all of this, one must sit back and say, "What the #$&@ is up with that $%^*!?!?!" At this point, the prospect of fighting Faldorn without a Druid (as in the old TimeStop -> Shapeshift Mindflayer) is starting to look like the more reasonable alternative. But until Weimer corrects this, I'll probably just stick with uninstalling the Improved Druid Grove every time I get to Faldorn, and putting it back when I've beaten her.

[ 06-24-2004, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]