Russians Demand Gold for their Skater

According to the leader of the Russian Ice Skating organization, Biased judging hurt their skaters marks and demand that she also receive a Gold medal just as the Canadians did when biased judges hurt them.

Who didn't see this coming from a mile away?

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Yesterday the Russians threatened to pull their athletes out of the Olympic games if something was not done about the scandals involving the judging officials.
That put pressure on all the judges to make sure the Russian ice skater would win the gold.
It didn't happen and now they are complaining.
I did not see the competition beyond watching Sarah Cohen fall and seeing the final marks that determined Sarah Hughes the win so I can't make any informed comments on how fair the judging was but if they have a legitimate complaint all the more power to them, after all, the judges take an oath during the opening ceremonies to be fair...why not stick to it?

I do feel that the skier being taken out of competition for the high red blood cell count was fair...a woman on her cycle cannot have a low red count one hour and a high one the next or even a few after.

It really makes me wonder, the importance that people put into winning...so much so that they'll cheat, judges and athletes alike.
Its really kind of sad.

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Originally posted by Moni:
Yesterday the Russians threatened to pull their athletes out of the Olympic games if something was not done about the scandals involving the judging officials.
That put pressure on all the judges to make sure the Russian ice skater would win the gold.
It didn't happen and now they are complaining.
I did not see the competition beyond watching Sarah Cohen fall and seeing the final marks that determined Sarah Hughes the win so I can't make any informed comments on how fair the judging was but if they have a legitimate complaint all the more power to them, after all, the judges take an oath during the opening ceremonies to be fair...why not stick to it?

I do feel that the skier being taken out of competition for the high red blood cell count was fair...a woman on her cycle cannot have a low red count one hour and a high one the next or even a few after.

It really makes me wonder, the importance that people put into winning...so much so that they'll cheat, judges and athletes alike.
Its really kind of sad.

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I didnt see the performances either, however I did hear from multiple sources that Kwan and the russian both fell and stumbled in their performances..and that the 16 year old American girl skated above and beyond her normal skills..apparently she had one of those nights when everything just clicked with no noticable gaffes in her program. She actually made all of her planned jumps and spins, both Kwan and the russian had to stop short on a couple of their triple moves and shorten them to doubles...or so that what the papers, radio and tv are sayin.

I think the russians were protesting last night not about the judges, but from what I heard they protested that one of their people failed his or her blood test for drugs or steroids and so was disqualified...that was the only protest from them that I heard about.

Their reference to the canadians getting gold and the fact that both an american and a russian skater didn't perform up to par sort of obviates any bias, and sort of points to poor sportsmanship. It was a 4th place skater who beat the pants off both her team mate american and the russian skater who deserved the gold. IMO (never been accused of being humble [img]smile.gif[/img] )

The announcers did make a remark when Sarah Hughes was awarded the gold that it should put to rest any doubts about the judging having been unfair so I am going to assume it was (fair), esp if the Russian and Kwan both faltered in thier programs and Hughes did not.

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they protested that one of their people failed his or her blood test for drugs or steroids and so was disqualified...that was the only protest from them that I heard about.

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That was a female skier taken out for the low, then high, red blood cell count that they attributed to her monthly cycle...doping affects the red blood cell count and is used for endurance...I think the call was fair and that the protest is BS in order to hide the doping.

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: Moni ]

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Originally posted by Moni:
That was a female skier taken out for the low, then high, red blood cell count that they attributed to her monthly cycle...doping affects the red blood cell count and is used for endurance...I think the call was fair and that the protest is BS in order to hide the doping.

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hehe I don know nothin bout no female cycles and dope [img]smile.gif[/img] Seriously, All I really heard was that she failed her blood test...Im assuming after so many decades of testing for the olympics that they have a fair idea of what womens physiologies should be like [img]smile.gif[/img]

Then again...ya never know. Never underestimate the ability of an organization to reach new heights of stupidity!

[Yorick]

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Originally posted by MagiK:



I didnt see the performances either, however I did hear from multiple sources that Kwan and the russian both fell and stumbled in their performances..

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Since when has freedom from mistakes meant artistic excellence? If someone skated an easy skate perfectly, and another skated a waaaay more difficult skate with one mistake who would you deem the better skater? I've noticed that's often what lay people use to determine how good a skating performance is.

"Oh but 'so and so' had one error." Never mind sheer artistic brilliance.

The Russian skater did NOT fall. When she landed from a jump she leant too far forward for but an instant, but certainly did not fall.

That said the Gold medallist skated brilliantly. Beautifully. It demeans her own performance to merely put it down to being 'mistake free'.

Then again, I can't imagine the pressure on the judges to heavily punish a mistake now. Even an Italian pair were deemed unworthy for BRONZE by the north American public because of one error.

Imagine if that were the case in live music. No-one would bother attempting anything extraordinary for fear of making an error.

Yes "error free" is impressive. But it is not more impressive than a slightly imperfect artistic display of sheer brilliance.

Give me the latter any day.

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Originally posted by Yorick:


Since when has freedom from mistakes meant artistic excellence? If someone skated an easy skate perfectly, and another skated a waaaay more difficult skate with one mistake who would you deem the better skater? I've noticed that's often what lay people use to determine how good a skating performance is.

"Oh but 'so and so' had one error." Never mind sheer artistic brilliance.

The Russian skater did NOT fall. When she landed from a jump she leant too far forward for but an instant, but certainly did not fall.

That said the Gold medallist skated brilliantly. Beautifully. It demeans her own performance to merely put it down to being 'mistake free'.

Then again, I can't imagine the pressure on the judges to heavily punish a mistake now. Even an Italian pair were deemed unworthy for BRONZE by the north American public because of one error.

Imagine if that were the case in live music. No-one would bother attempting anything extraordinary for fear of making an error.

Yes "error free" is impressive. But it is not more impressive than a slightly imperfect artistic display of sheer brilliance.

Give me the latter any day.

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Errors are part of the judgeing criteria...and I never said she was merely error free, according to the reports her performance was outstanding in all areas, both in degree of dificulty (she made 7 tripples) whereas the other two sketers shortened up their tripples to doubles..sooooo to get at what irritated me about your reply...I never said her performance was "merely" error free, nor did I say she wasnt artistic or beautiful..my whole point of the thread is that the freakin Russians made them selves look like morons by wording their protest the way they did!


Anyway...nice to know someone actually saw her skate.

[Yorick]

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Originally posted by MagiK:
Errors are part of the judgeing criteria.....my whole point of the thread is that the freakin Russians made them selves look like morons by wording their protest the way they did!


Anyway...nice to know someone actually saw her skate.

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Yes MagiK PART of the judging criterea, not the sole judging criterea. A judge subjectively balances the errors against the successes. I've had to mark/judge 60 odd music performances in a day before, and it's very difficult. I don't envy the skating judges a bit - especially since the outcry overemphasised errors above brilliance.

There wasn't much between the two skaters, but the difference was not the lean. The Gold medallist had a bit of extra "something" to hers. However this is SUBJECTIVE on my part. It's not hard to understand how Russians with different cultural tastes would see their country-woman as much better.

Actually there was a young, small, long dark haired girl who made her first appearance internationally who possibly had more beauty at times in her routine than any of the others. But she had a spectacular fall. "Not enough speed" they said. She'll be back.

Kwan won't it seems.

[Fast Hands]

I saw them skate, and it would be a tough call. In order for Sarah Hughes to get the gold, the Russian had to beat Kwan in the long program, but be ranked in second place. It came down to the wire between the Russian and Sarah, and Sarah came out on top.
I don't believe that this is any kind of judging controversy at all.

Somebody wins, somebody loses. That's just the way it is.

Seems to me that some people at these Olympic Games are having a hard time accepting that when it doesn't go their way. This is the first time I have kept up with the Games, so I don't know if it has always been this way. Frankly, I believe it's getting ridiculous; not a day goes by that something is not "controversial" or protested.

It's really too bad...

[Micah Foehammer]

I saw all of the final group skate. I am NO expert, but to these untrained eyes, Sarah Hughes skated wonderfully - lots of energy, no visible mistakes, and wonderful artistry. Michelle Kwan had a major fall which demanded a deduction and the Irinia Slutskaya (the Russian skater) had several small errors which also should have resulted in deductions. To me, it was clear cut and the final placement accurately reflected the relative beauty and skill of their performances. The most telling thing was the close up of Irina's face at the end of her performance - she could be seen to mouth the words ">>>damn it" to herself - and her facial expressions clearly indicated that she knew in her own heart that she had fallen short of what was necessary to win.

As for the Russian cross country skater -- according to news reports she actually passed her first blood test with a hemoglobin content JUST below the accepted limit, but her blood sample was retested and on the retest, she failed .. although just barely. This is much less clear cut to me as to whether they have a valid complaint or not.

And as for the Koreans and the speedskating controversy ... well, again I saw the race, saw the replays multiple times, read the rules which were posted in the newspapers here, and all i can say is that their skater DESERVED to be disqualified. Cross tracking is against the rules; the Korean skater clearly cross tracked and deserved to be DQ'ed. End of story!