Thoughts on first time party..

[Luvian]

Sure, Rangers like bows, it's good for the hunt, and their stealth skills make them good snipers, but they don't have the years of total dedication needed to master the weapon.

I've been playing chess for years, but I've neveer mastered it. Why? Because I don't spend all my time working on it.

[Gimli]

Yeah, in the 3rd edition sense where only fighters get WS that is true as far as the dedication argument goes. Although in 2nd edition (I think it was in Unearthed Arcana) Rangers could also get WS, so there they were as good as anyone at archery. And alot of other CRPGs have made the ranger class the "best" archers. I just think they should have given rangers some kinda archery perk in IWD2, especially instead of dual wielding.

[Luvian]

Tere are so many optional rulebooks in 2nd edition that you could probably find one that allow wizards to get weapon specialisation...


The only things fighters have for them is specialisation, if you give that to the ranger you make them overpowered, and you strip the fighter of his only talent.

If you want your Ranger to becaume a perfect archer, have him dedicate all his time to archery until he has mastered it. (4 fighter level) Then he can resume his training as a ranger. (more ranger levels)

[Gimli]

What if they had done the TOEE thing and said "choose between archery and dual wield" and let "archery" be something like free rapid shot at 2nd level and free precise shot at 6th? Something like that - or maybe like BGII where only fighters could get take WS for all weapons, but some classes like the Kensai could take it but only with swords. Fighers still get gaggles of feats beyond what a ranger will, I don't think it would kill game balance that much, and the ranger class needs some kind of boost in IWD II anyways (although even as it is I think it's underrated and not as bad as most people say).

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Gimli: What if they had done the TOEE thing and said "choose between archery and dual wield" and let "archery" be something like free rapid shot at 2nd level and free precise shot at 6th? Something like that - or maybe like BGII where only fighters could get take WS for all weapons, but some classes like the Kensai could take it but only with swords. Fighers still get gaggles of feats beyond what a ranger will, I don't think it would kill game balance that much, and the ranger class needs some kind of boost in IWD II anyways (although even as it is I think it's underrated and not as bad as most people say).

Kensai were very overpowered...

Rangers are good, they get good sneak skills and some usefull spells, as well as traking... Fighters get no skills at all beside their specialisation and wathever feats you get them. The only bow skill Rangers can't have is weapon specialisation, just get a few fighter levels if you want that +2 damage very badly.

[JrKASperov]

Another thing people keep forgetting about the fighter is the benefit of his extra feats. Feats make the fighter, just like skills make the rouge.

[Gimli]

Luvian - right, I think the class is underrated and can be useful. I still think there should be some archery choice though. Do you think the TOEE idea is OK? You'd be giving up 2 feats (ambidex, 2 weap fighting) and instead getting 2 bow feats (rapid shot, precise shot). Keep everything else the same, just let the player decide if they want archery or dual wielding.

[TheGlow]

I dont see why not. Id swap 2hand for it.
I mean, +2 dam is not game breaking. But the more the merrier.
Plus you dont have official ambi/2weap since if you put on some heavier armor, alls gone.
By chance, does wearing heavy armor screw up 2weapon combat in general? My fighter/rogues BAB went to hell when I put some heavy armor on.

[Gimli]

I don't think it's supposed to for anyone but Rangers - although does the figher/rogue have a fighter level yet? If you don't have the armor proficiency for heavy armor then the armor check penalties will apply to BAB AFAIK. Did you use a shield and take the weapon finesse feat by any chance because then I think the shield's armor check penalty goes against your BAB as well.

[TheGlow]

I dunno what it may have been. I think It was during a load where I didnt give myself the fighter lvl yet.
I was tryin to test diff combos out and prolly got confused cuz it didnt the last time I checked.