Smoking Ban part 2, original by Timber Loftis

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by MagiK: Outside the United States it is also quite common to call any disease that has similar symptoms, AIDS since the United States and the UN's WHO will give you more money if its labeled AIDS. Sorry I know its [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] but it is another pet peeve, goes along with scientists skewing data for their own ends.....

Then how do you explain the life expectancy AIDS ravaged parts of Africa droping to under 40 years? It must be some other disease that looks and transmits just like AIDS. Yes I am sure all those doctors in under-funded clinics are begging for AIDS druggest just for the fun of it.

Do you have any proof for such an outrages accusation? Or do I need to provide undeniable proof that AIDS is depopulating the African continent?

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: It's resonable to assume, imo, that the same smoke that comes out of the smokers lips is still dangerous. Not to the same extent as the original smoke, but still a risk.

NO, NO, NO!!!

Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so. [/QUOTE]So, what are the safe levels of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene? [/QUOTE]Depends on what you mean by "safe". [/QUOTE]That sounds a lot like asking what 'is' means to me.

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Thorfinn:No, the only way to prevent that is to take away the power of the gummint to give some people special treatment in the first place, since there will always be ways to get money around, even if it is a briefcase full of cash given to the brother-in-law of the guy who hands out pardons... [/QB]

If you honestly believe that there is a way of taking away the power of the government from giving it's friends special treatment then you are more of an idealist them I am. If you reverted to an anarchist society you might. But the powerful will always attempt to hand out special favors to their friends and supress the ones they do not like. It's pretty much human nature.

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn: quote: It's resonable to assume, imo, that the same smoke that comes out of the smokers lips is still dangerous. Not to the same extent as the original smoke, but still a risk.

NO, NO, NO!!!

Any toxicologist will tell you that the toxin is in the dosage. Too much potassium in your body will kill you, as will too little. You need a certain amount to operate properly. I am not saying that you need second-hand smoke, but that it is not reasonable to assume that a low dosage is also risky, just less so. [/QUOTE]So, what are the safe levels of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene? [/QUOTE]Depends on what you mean by "safe". [/QUOTE]That sounds a lot like asking what 'is' means to me. [/QUOTE]Sorry if it sounds like that, but define "safe". For instance, numerous pharmaceuticals are highly toxic, and even have potentially life-threatening side-effects, but the trade-off is that the condition it is intended to treat is worse than the side-effects. Sorry, but the "safe" level of Micardis, for instance, is going to depend on whether you have high blood pressure or not...

[ 05-12-2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Thorfinn:Sorry if it sounds like that, but define "safe". For instance, numerous pharmaceuticals are highly toxic, and even have potentially life-threatening side-effects, but the trade-off is that the condition it is intended to treat is worse than the side-effects. Sorry, but the "safe" level of Micardis, for instance, is going to depend on whether you have high blood pressure or not...

Yes I know that many pharmaceuticals and everyday nutrients become unsafe at certain levels (even water). But can you truly say there is any safe level of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene?

BTW Nicotine makes a great pesticide.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Rokenn: That sounds a lot like asking what 'is' means to me.

Damn. Beat me to it. Guess I'll quote John Cleese, "Don't be silly. You couldn't get very far in life without saying 'IS' now could you?"

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn:No, the only way to prevent that is to take away the power of the gummint to give some people special treatment in the first place, since there will always be ways to get money around, even if it is a briefcase full of cash given to the brother-in-law of the guy who hands out pardons...

If you honestly believe that there is a way of taking away the power of the government from giving it's friends special treatment then you are more of an idealist them I am. If you reverted to an anarchist society you might. But the powerful will always attempt to hand out special favors to their friends and supress the ones they do not like. It's pretty much human nature. [/QB][/QUOTE]Actually, I think I am more of a realist than you. I know that people will try to give special treatment to their friends, so you need to try to eliminate any political power that is subject to significant abuse.

Ashcroft scares me, so giving him even more sweeping powers with the so-called "US Patriot Act" seems like an incredibly bad idea...

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by Rokenn: That sounds a lot like asking what 'is' means to me.

Damn. Beat me to it. Guess I'll quote John Cleese, "Don't be silly. You couldn't get very far in life without saying 'IS' now could you?" [/QUOTE]aaaaahhhhhffffghghghhghghh DON'T SAY THAT WORD! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Thorfinn: Sorry, but the "safe" level of Micardis, for instance, is going to depend on whether you have high blood pressure or not...

Well, then, as far as society is concerned, the "safe" level assumes someone who has high blood pressure.

[Thorfinn]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by Thorfinn:Sorry if it sounds like that, but define "safe". For instance, numerous pharmaceuticals are highly toxic, and even have potentially life-threatening side-effects, but the trade-off is that the condition it is intended to treat is worse than the side-effects. Sorry, but the "safe" level of Micardis, for instance, is going to depend on whether you have high blood pressure or not...

Yes I know that many pharmaceuticals and everyday nutrients become unsafe at certain levels (even water). But can you truly say there is any safe level of tar, nicotine, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide, and benzene?

BTW Nicotine makes a great pesticide. [/QUOTE]Let me turn the question around. At what point does tar, nicotine, CO, etc. become unsafe? Can you say that there is any increased risk at the fractional parts per trillion detection limits we have today? Where does the risk start?