Minnesota school shootings

[dplax]

This is just really sad...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4370617.stm

Excerpt Eight people have been killed and about 14 injured when a gunman opened fire at a school in the US state of Minnesota. The gunman - a local student - shot dead another man and woman earlier, FBI spokesman Paul McCabe said. The gunman is believed to be among the dead in the mid-afternoon shooting at Red Lake High School, which is on an Indian reservation, Mr McCabe said. The incident is the deadliest US school shooting since the Columbine killings six years ago, in which 15 people died.

[Ziroc]

I will predict now, that the teenage shooter was or just got off of either Prozac or another drug.

In 99.9% of all cases in these shootings at school, or in workplace shootings, the killer/murderer is or was on a Prozac, Zoloft and the like.

Such a tragedy.. yet another 'head shaker'

[Spelca]

I read on Swedish text tv that he first shot his grandparents, and then went to school.

[dplax]

I just read on BBC that some of his fellow pupils had teased him for always dressing in black. If that was the only reason then this is a really tragic event.

And it seems he killed his grandparents, a school security guard, a teacher and seven other students. He then exchanged fire with the FBI and then killed himself.

[Link]

Seems like Bowling for Columbine did not accomplish what it tried to accomplish.

Bowling for Red Lake?

[Timber Loftis]

It's been over 6 years since the last time a HS kid went nvts at school with a gun. In a country of 300 million or so people, it's a wonder this doesn't happen more often. Given a big enough statistical pool, such weirdness is bound to happen -- especially when you factor in the volatility of a teenager's emotions.

[dplax]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: It's been over 6 years since the last time a HS kid went nvts at school with a gun. In a country of 300 million or so people, it's a wonder this doesn't happen more often. Given a big enough statistical pool, such weirdness is bound to happen -- especially when you factor in the volatility of a teenager's emotions.

Europe has 750 million people, yet we haven't had anything like this since I'm following the news (9-10 years).

[Timber Loftis]

That's because you have soccer games for a healthy violent outlet. Venting off that much physical abuse on a regular basis helps you remain much more sensible, I think.

Besides, when young men decide they want to violently rebel over there, there are a lot of terrorist groups for them to join. Why go to school alone to cause trouble when you can go to Russia or Ireland and join a whole group of men and take over a whole school? You got your problems too, it seems.

[ 03-22-2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[dplax]

There is a substantial difference between a chechen terrorist group taking over a school with demands to the russian government and an american kid going to his school and shooting seven people (+2 counting the grandparents before it).

There are psycho cases, I agree, but since Columbine and even before it several times one or several kids just go into their schools and start shooting people.

Bowling for Columbine ties this together with the ease to obtain firearms in the US, but I do not want to go into a need for regulating them or not, as that topic usually gets locked after a certain time here on IW. I'll just say that the only person I know, who has a gun is my uncle, who goes hunting for deer and boar on his weekends. Other than that I have never had any of my friends or people, whom I know say that they or someone they knew had guns.

About the ease to join terrorist groups in Europe...the largest terrorist attacks carried out in Europe (Madrid train bombings) and Lockerby were done by non-european groups. Other terrorist activities in Europe might include a bomb against a church (again a topic which generates a lot of heat on IW) or ETA bombings.

The largest European terrorist groups are ETA and the different factions of the IRA (and the chechens if you consider them still Europe). ETA fight for basque independence and shall continue to fight for it. Now someone, who is young and feels angry at a situation, I'm not sure his first thought shall be to enter ETA in Spain, as he/she doesn't necessarily believe in basque independence. IRA is now mostly out of action and it even seems that they are willing to go after their members, who endanger the peace process. (after the McCartney murder they offered the family to kill the murderer, but the family did not want it).

Of course Europe has its problems and of course a european kid could theoretically acquire a dozen firearms and go rampage in a school, but for some reason it hasn't happened recently, while in the US it happened on several occasions.

There has to be a reason for that, and I don't think that football matches would explain it. Only a fraction of the population go to watch the matches and of those who go only a fraction are there not for the match, but to cause mayhem.

[shamrock_uk]

Nice post dplax.

Schoolboys and terrorists are indeed not the same kettle of fish...

The IRA has largely moved into organised crime since about 1999 - once they couldn't make money from protection they diversified. Belfast used to be pretty drug-free, now its overrun with the stuff It also has to be said that loyalist paramilitary organisations are also involved in equally dubious enterprises but the spotlight is of course currently on the IRA.

Anyway, my heart goes out to the families of the dead and the boys own family - imagine how his Grandfather is feeling for example.

As for the whole gun control debate, so as not to sidetrack the thread I shall limit myself to two sentences.

A common argument against a gun ban:

1) If guns are made illegal, criminals can still easily get guns.

Fair enough, but:

2) If guns are readily available in the house non-criminals can also easily get guns.

The course of action does seem rather obvious...


Edit: Looks like the two people killed earlier were his grandfather and his partner

[ 03-22-2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]