Moscow hostage situation - nervegas was the killer

[whacky]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: I am not taking either side here, I dont know enough about the sintiuation to pick sides. But I was just wondering, what would have you people done? And dont give me that "I dont know, but I wouldnt have gased 100+ people" BS.

Here's what i'd 'ave done, pumped in something more sensible. Either this or robotics survailence to check the inside of the hall then carried out something that was atleast more sensible, quickly in and quickly out, or perhaps a precision strike team. What do you say now eh ? Or perhaps some emp/radio jamming to disable the bomb ! Hows that, how many points do i get ?

[Attalus]

I have to say that at least the Russkis did something instead of just waffling about. It's like the argument about whether a military pilot should have shot down one of the 9-11 airliners. Yes, the passenger were doomed, and yes, there might have been casualties on the ground, but it would have denied the terrorists their primary objective. These b******s are ingenious and deadly. I wonder how many of those terrorists will have al-Quaidq links, like training in an Afghan camp?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: I am not taking either side here, I dont know enough about the sintiuation to pick sides. But I was just wondering, what would have you people done? And dont give me that "I dont know, but I wouldnt have gased 100+ people" BS.

Mmmm.... I would have called the Israelis. They handle this stuff better. Ask Idi Amin.

[Ronn_Bman]

Actually, radio signals or jamming could have set the bombs off.

It's terrible that anyone died in this. The fact that the terrorists had a bomb rigged specifically to kill the hostages before other bombs brought down the building let us know just how desperate the situation was. In the end, I believe lives were saved.

The horror in this is that the government wouldn't say what was used or give the hospital information needed to treat victims of the gas. I wonder how many of the 100+ lives could have been saved, if crews had been standing by, ready to treat those effected by the gas.

The person who made the decision not to release information on the type of gas used is certainly guilty of a crime.

[ 10-28-2002, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Attalus]

True, Ronn. It seems the old Russian passion for secrecy and misinformation is alive and well.

[Spelca]

Originally posted by johnny: Well, their mainobjective has been reached: to end the whole thing. Russians just have different standards than western countries do, human lives don't have the same value either.

[img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] Oh... Er... Nah. I won't even bother. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[andrewas]

Originally posted by whacky: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: I am not taking either side here, I dont know enough about the sintiuation to pick sides. But I was just wondering, what would have you people done? And dont give me that "I dont know, but I wouldnt have gased 100+ people" BS.

Here's what i'd 'ave done, pumped in something more sensible. Either this or robotics survailence to check the inside of the hall then carried out something that was atleast more sensible, quickly in and quickly out, or perhaps a precision strike team. What do you say now eh ? Or perhaps some emp/radio jamming to disable the bomb ! Hows that, how many points do i get ?[/QUOTE]Yes, just get onto Q to give you all the nice gadgets.

You cant EMP a bomb unless you know its exact specifications. Even then, the results are unknowable. It may fail safe - official weapons *should* fail safe, but with terrorists, they probably *want* the thing to blow up if tampered with.

And robotics surveilance is all very well, but robot surveilance isnt exactly stealthy at the moment. Its more used for diasaster recovery where noise dosent matter. If there are hostiles, its too conspicuous.

The russian miliatary did all right in the actual rescue. I still think they could have been more careful with the gas, and aparantley they were executing unconcious terrorists (Or so AOL said) whihc im not to happy to hear. But afterwards is where they screwed up seriously.

[Attalus]

"When shown an American mine clearing team, with it's mine detectors and explosion proofed jeeps, a Soviet general is said to have remarked that the way that he usually cleared a mine field was to march a battalion across it." John Keegan, World War II.

[ 10-28-2002, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Attalus ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

More than 750 hostages were rescued, including all 75 non-Russians and 25 children, when special forces stormed the building

from this article http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...off/index.html

You people only see the negative!! Look on the bright side the MAJORITY of the hostages were saved and the explosives werent detonated.If the gass wasnt used maybe the death toll would be ALL of the hostages.Then everyone would be criticizeing the Russians inaction and how they allowed the hostages to be killed.IMNSHO the Russians did the best they could with what they had.Useing the gass was their best chance for success and since the majority of the hostages survived I would say it was a smashing success. Someone posted on here that an article on AOL said that the russians were executeing unconsious terrorists. That is definately a step in the right direction!! Why send someone with a rifle in their hand and a bomb strapped to their chest through the legal system? All it does is waste time and slow down the inevitable, or maybe they are innocent of any wrong doing and it is all just a big misunderstanding. Maybe the bomb just magicaly appeared and strapped itself to them and the rifle forced itself upon them. The government should treat terrorists caught in the act just like a home owner would treat a house breaker, like an opportunity for target practise!!

[whacky]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: quote: More than 750 hostages were rescued, including all 75 non-Russians and 25 children, when special forces stormed the building

from this article http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...off/index.html

You people only see the negative!! Look on the bright side the MAJORITY of the hostages were saved and the explosives werent detonated.If the gass wasnt used maybe the death toll would be ALL of the hostages.Then everyone would be criticizeing the Russians inaction and how they allowed the hostages to be killed.IMNSHO the Russians did the best they could with what they had.Useing the gass was their best chance for success and since the majority of the hostages survived I would say it was a smashing success. Someone posted on here that an article on AOL said that the russians were executeing unconsious terrorists. That is definately a step in the right direction!! Why send someone with a rifle in their hand and a bomb strapped to their chest through the legal system? All it does is waste time and slow down the inevitable, or maybe they are innocent of any wrong doing and it is all just a big misunderstanding. Maybe the bomb just magicaly appeared and strapped itself to them and the rifle forced itself upon them. The government should treat terrorists caught in the act just like a home owner would treat a house breaker, like an opportunity for target practise!![/QUOTE]Erm we're not actually seeing only the negative side, what we're really discussing is what could've been done to improve the rescue results [img]smile.gif[/img] Aftera ll every single human life "does" matter. As for you suggesting that it IS ok to kill unconscious terrorists, NO, that is wrong. The cause of justice is not served this way. Yes the inevitable might be an execution, agreed, but that doesnt take a man's right to stand in a fair trial. Plus DO we even know the reason behind this act. I think its time the curtains should be lifted and the point of the other side be also seen and discussed. I'm sorry but i'm not exactly the "political" type, perhaps someone else can enlighten me [img]smile.gif[/img]

Andrew: Thanks for correcting me [img]smile.gif[/img] My "plan" was based on something i read a while ago about robotics in the newspaper and some articles [img]smile.gif[/img] Oh and an addition question have they found a way to remotely disable plastic explosives ?