Is the US Bush Administration Un-Patriotic??

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: No offense Moiriane, but what does that quote have to do with the topic at hand? I thought this was a discussion of whether or not George Bush desecrated the American flag? edit: forgot the "<" in front of my color! Sorry!

No offense, Sir T., but I kinda think the quote is somewhat pertinent in the context of the nowadays tendancy of yelling "Unpatriotic !".

[John D Harris]

I've noticed during the last several months and years that many people who have their logic, and reasoning questioned, defend them by screaming that their patriotism is being questioned, when it is not .

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Moiraine: "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Now find out whose quote this is ...

Hermann Goering, Berlin, 1938. Now back to the topic at hand, since I still fail to see the relevancy to flag desecration. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: No offense Moiriane, but what does that quote have to do with the topic at hand? I thought this was a discussion of whether or not George Bush desecrated the American flag? edit: forgot the "<" in front of my color! Sorry!

No offence Sir Taliesin - but I think that's some other thread! This one's about being unpatriotic.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Moiraine: "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Now find out whose quote this is ...

Worked like a charm here in the U.S. with regards to Iraq. Amazing how the polls show support for the war slipping dramatically now that it is clear we were never in any dire threat from Iraq amongst other overblown fear-mongering rationals behind the war. I still hear rightwing hawks on the news-debate shows calling people out for not being proud of the president for the way the war has turned out. So many real issues (economy, foriegn policy, ect.) to discuss and information to disect, but they would rather poke and prey at the raw emotions of people and turn dissent into unpatriotism.

Reminds me of a recent song lyric
"...Digging for fear makes the job easier"

[Donut]

Originally posted by John D Harris: I've noticed during the last several months and years that many people who have their logic, and reasoning questioned, defend them by screaming that their patriotism is being questioned, when it is not .

That's because 'you're either with us or you're agin us!'

[Sir Taliesin]

OH damn!!! Sorry guys! I got confused about which topic I was on! I got up early this morning (will actually it was the usual time, but I stayed up til 2:30 this morning waiting on the ROTK DVD Teaser to download. Then I found out I didn't have Quicktime on my laptop and had to download that!)

BUT I was the only one to get Moiraine's Quote question (well at least the only one to post the answer anyhow). It all makes sense now. [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[ 07-31-2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Sir Taliesin ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Donut: quote: Originally posted by John D Harris: I've noticed during the last several months and years that many people who have their logic, and reasoning questioned, defend them by screaming that their patriotism is being questioned, when it is not .

That's because 'you're either with us or you're agin us!' [/QUOTE]Except that statment was made to other counties about the war on terrorism, not to US citizens. By Nature you can not be patriotic to that which you are not part of. You can agree or be allies with, but not patriotic.

We are seeing the other side of the coin to the phrase "Patriotisn is the last refuge of scounderls" We are used to seeing the side where the patriotic ones were the scounderls, But now we are seeing the scounderls are the ones crying that their patriotism is questioned, when it is their logic, intellectual honesty, and reasoning that is questioned.

[ 07-31-2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]