Well, we usually have a very vocal board, wonder why no one has statred on...

[Fljotsdale]

If you read my earlier posts on this thread you will know I am in favour of the death penelty for sveral reasons - which I will not repeat - but I would like to make 2 things clear: 1) I do not think ALL murderers should be killed. ANYONE is capable of killing if the circumstances arise (for example a battered wife may one day find in herself sufficient rage to kill her parner). But a cold, calculating, and PROVEN murderer should not be allowed to live. Society has rights too - the right to not be burdened by such people being one of them.
2) I think people who sexually abuse children should be put to death as well, not released time after time to do the same thing to some other children. Releasing such people is wicked, imho, and keeping them in prison is to make the victims' families PAY to keep them there. That is utterly unjust! PROVEN Paedophiles should also be put to death. IMHO.

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[WOLFGIR]

Fjotsdale, I didn´t put too much of my own values in my post, I put in my "social conscience" not my own HO. if i did you would be afraid.. OK sorry to make jokes in serious threads, but we need it, or we all would go gloom faced..

I think that we as in a state should start to see to it that less crimes could actually be made, preventing people from having guns and so on. A more reprogramming kind of prisons instead of store away.

I do agree that the society has the right to be safe, but has the society right to kill? I don´t like women bashers or childabusers either, but most of these people are sick, and should get treatment for it. Persoanlly i say to hell with chicken childabusers, make fertisers of them so they can give something bck to society, but in larger sence I can´t agree to that either, even if i would like too..

Their are so much values to be combind into this matter that one can´t tell them all, only state ones opinion. And my opinion is that the only death penalty I think should be left here is the death penalty for treason in war. We took that away though. Since we we have agreed to follow the UN guidelines in the matter of humanrights.

in old times here, a killer was faced with the surviviors of the family and the oldest son or anyone in the family could kill him, in cold blood. Most people couldn´t, that way the killer had to serve as their servant for a large time peiod taking the place of the man/woman he/she killed. Sounds nice eh? Well problemtoday is that we have weaponry that "invites" to massmurdery..

Unfortunate situation and I can only give my deepest condolences for the survivors and the realatives of thoose who died. in this matter, they are the living and the energy should be spent on them!


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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: in old times here, a killer was faced with the surviviors of the family and the oldest son or anyone in the family could kill him, in cold blood. Most people couldn´t, that way the killer had to serve as their servant for a large time peiod taking the place of the man/woman he/she killed. Sounds nice eh? Well problemtoday is that we have weaponry that "invites" to massmurdery.. Unfortunate situation and I can only give my deepest condolences for the survivors and the realatives of thoose who died. in this matter, they are the living and the energy should be spent on them!

That is what happened to killers in Bible times too - the next of kin of the murdered person had the right/duty to kill the murderer. A murderer had to flee to a 'city of refuge' where he would be safe - but ONLY IF THE KILLING WAS ACCIDENTAL. If it was deliberate, and proved, he would be thrown out of the 'city of refuge' to be dealt with by the victim's relatives. I am not actually in favour of that, as it seems savage to me!

As for the 'energy being spent' on the relatives of those who died - yes I agree. And also the MONEY. Instead of cash being spent to keep a murderer in prison for 10-15 years, let him have a lethal injection and give the money saved to the relatives as their right.

Ah, well, it ain't gonna happen...


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[Moridin]

I'm all for a Floating Penal Colony of Doom

A ship (akin to a couple of cruise ships) that floats around the ocean and holds the most deplorable criminals. Sure it is a flight-of-fancy thought, but just think about the chance of a prison break. And if the ship gets taken over by the criminals, we send in the navy and sink it, easy as that!

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Ever wonder if illiterate people get the full effect from alphabet soup?

[Gaelic]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: I think that we as in a state should start to see to it that less crimes could actually be made, preventing people from having guns and so on. A more reprogramming kind of prisons instead of store away. ... in old times here, a killer was faced with the surviviors of the family and the oldest son or anyone in the family could kill him, in cold blood. Most people couldn´t, that way the killer had to serve as their servant for a large time peiod taking the place of the man/woman he/she killed. Sounds nice eh? Well problemtoday is that we have weaponry that "invites" to massmurdery..

I have to disagree with you strongly on two points you have made here. First, I know there are many opinions from many people from many different countries here, but the USA was founded and build upon the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights guarantees any lawful US citizen the right to own firearms. Period. If you destroy that, the country soon follows. Remember, the first thing Hitler did was confiscate the weapons of the citizenry.

Second, how can a gun kill someone or inspire "mass murder?" Just recently in Japan, a man killed and wounded more kids than were killed or wounded at the Colombine event with a KNIFE! It is not the tool that kills, it is the person weilding it. If they don't use a gun, it will be a knife, bomb, sharp stick, rock, or poison gas. The PEOPLE are the problem, not the weapons. This is one of the big problems with the world today. People refuse to take responsibility, rather, they blame guns, television, the school system, "big business," and "the man" for their problems. As such, we live in a blameless society where it's nobody's fault and everyone gets a hug. One day we are all in for a huge wake up when we realize that we have to make things happen or not happen for ourselves and we see that criminals are criminals because they are bad people, not because their Dad taught them how to hunt when they were little.



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Gaelic

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

although that is ambiguesly worded i belive the orginal intention of the amendmant was to give arms to a milita like national Guard, not any old person who want to own a gun.
In britan most handguns and other types are confiscated etc and sevre restricons are put on the use of guns, and it has only benfitted the country. removing guns will not stop problems, but it will stop an easy method of killing that is used in a huge amounht of murders in america.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." although that is ambiguesly worded i belive the orginal intention of the amendmant was to give arms to a milita like national Guard, not any old person who want to own a gun. In britan most handguns and other types are confiscated etc and sevre restricons are put on the use of guns, and it has only benfitted the country. removing guns will not stop problems, but it will stop an easy method of killing that is used in a huge amounht of murders in america.

I'm with you all the way on this one Dramnek. Every single inch of the way. Every citizen having the right to bear arms in today's world is plain crazy. There was some sort of excuse for it in 'frontier' America - when they 'needed' 'em to kill Indians whose land they were stealing - but that was way before the bill of human rights.
I really don't understand this determination to cling to 'rights' that do nothing but harm.

Ok, so yes, it IS the person, not the weapon that is bad, in one sense. And you can't ban everything that is dangerous or that can be used as a weapon - that would be stupid. But things that are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO KILL should be restricted to the least number of people possible, and should not be so easily available that any lunatic has no problems if s/he wants to go on a killing spree.

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[Gaelic]

To me that clearly states that the people will be allowed to arm themselves. I firmly believe in the maxim, "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." The criminals will get them anyway and I refuse to be left unprotected from them. The last thing a criminal wants is for his "mark" to be found armed. He will usually run. What needs to happen is not to take away one of the rights upon which the country was founded, but rather to punish offenders. To punish them in a HARD manner, such that NOBODY would want to have it happen to them. Tough jails, hard sentences, and yes, the death penalty. That is the only way deterrence will work. I for, one, will never, ever give up my gun.



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Gaelic

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Gaelic: I for, one, will never, ever give up my gun.

My word, Gaelic, it makes me wonder how we ever manage in countries without the 'human right' to bear arms, lol! Still, one good thing about it - we have a MUCH lower per capita murder rate than you do!


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[jabidas]

Excuse me Gaelic but exactly how often do people go on rampages with knifes in japan, not often in fact their crime rates are miniscule compared to the US, they also dont let people by guns there funny that. The problem with guns is any crazy moron can pick it up point it and kill, there is no skill or technical difficulty, its easy simple and even efficant. Its absolute blindness to stick your head in the sand and say guns dont kill people do when in america you can by guns violent crime is huge and in other countries you cant and in comparrison violent crime is tiny. Theres obviously a clear relation. Its also sick to sell magazines like soldier of fortune that are extreme right wing and advocate the use of deadly force even glorifying it. People blame games and music when they sell magazines like guns and ammo and film like American Physco with a clear conciense because its safe middleclass and white. In a culture thats ok with guns and thinks fighting wars on countries that cant hope to defend themselves is the best thing in the world what do you expect? Rational people who respect life. Next the US may as well be nazi run the president can do whatever he wants when hes there nothing can stop him minus his own stupidity. He can declare wars run the economy, break treatys and just do any damn thing he likes without anyone stopping him. Also having state sanctioned murders takes away any possible moral high ground that any country lays claim to. Mc vay or whatever his name is isnt important hes just another product of American culture like those columbine kids its hardly the last of those kind of crimes your going to see. There are so many timebomb people out their bying guns and reading and viewing extreme force media all the time just wait its only the beggining.

On a little history the first Child to do this kind of thing was in the 80s her name escapes me but one monday she started shooting at people passing her house when they asked her why she was doing it she said Mondays were always boring and she needed to liven it up(there was some song based on the incident Mondays child i think). I think her motives were blamed on heavy metal music or something but when she did the crimes she was out of her head on pcp and the gun she was using her parents gave to her for her 13th birthday. She wouldnt have the ability to use a knife like that japanese guy but guns are easy.

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