Let me Know what you guys think

[Erin 13]

Hiya ppl
I am a student majoring in theology. I have to write a paper on religion and geography and I have a very very ruff draft. I noticed this place seems to be a hotbed of thought so, any opinions or thoughts on it would be greatly appretiated. I know it is long and very poorly writen thus far but thanks in advance : P


Many people of the world succumb to one religion or another. It is indeed a powerful force it has the power to shape geography and culture in many ways. The reverse is true also; geography and culture can also shape religion.

Geography and cultures affects on religions

Just like any story and myth, most religions are laced with ideas and values that come from the culture that made it up. Take for example the stories of the Grimm brothers. The two Brothers created many famous stories like Hanzel and Gretyl, Snow White, Cinderella, and Little Red Riding Hood. All of their Fairy Tales are laced with culture. The same is true with most religions. Only one out of six great religions of the world possible escape this, and that would be Buddhism. This appears to be the only religion that is more based on finding answers from within not so much the following of fairy tales.


Religions affects on geography and culture

The effects that geography and culture have on religion although it appears to be pretty great, sense it plays a part in the creation of the religions. Those effects are nothing compared to when religion rears its ugly head and takes effects on geography and culture. Lets look at just two examples of this. First would be the constant religious wars in the Middle East. Now there are too many wars and battle to write about, in this small paper. So I will talk about them as a hole in general. The Second Example would be the Dark ages.
Religious wars in the Middle East
The Middle East has always been a territory to fight over for different religious reasons. Mainly these religious countries or tribes believed that there was an all-powerful being. The named would differ from believe system to another. Some times it was called Ala and sometimes this being was called god. Whether it was the crusades or Romans vs. the Jews. The wars are always fought in name of these so-called gods. Countless people have died for this cause, in gods name. Countless people were murdered for this cause. And even more, innocent, people have been murdered for these other people’s believes in that cause. The biggest tragedy behind all the religious wars fought in the Middle East, is that the people who fight them believe as though they’ve done no wrong. It was breed into these peoples culture that they need not take responsibility for their actions. They were able sit back and point the blame on a story book that told them there was an omnipotent being in the sky that forced them to do those actions, or that they were carrying out one of these beings wills. Of course were battles are waged, geography tends to change, both by the earth that was destroyed in battle and the borders that man put on it.


The Dark Ages
The second example we will look at is the dark ages. The Dark Ages refer to an extended period of time were human civilization remained stagnant, and no major advance’s were made for humanity’s knowledge. This period from tends to differ slightly from, book to book. However, generally, it is agreed that the dark ages encompass at least from 500 CE to 1500 CE. Now of course religion is not the factor that cast humanity into the dark ages, but it obviously played a major hand. Both in getting humanity and all its cultures into the dark ages and keeping all of them they’re for so long.
Leading up to the dark ages, in 323 CE, Constantine attacked and defeated Licinius, thus becoming the first Christian emperor of Rome. Shortly after Rome starts to run into many problems. It got so bad that Paulus Orosius, who worked closely with St. Augustine of Hippo, wrote Histrorium adversus paganos libra VII, in 410 CE. He wrote this book to counter the citizens concerns, that Rome’s’ troubles had multiplied since the Empire became Christian. Rome falls in 476 CE. Meanwhile during the slow decay of Rome, from Constatine’s hostile take over to the final year. Rome was forcing the Christianity all through out Northern Europe to the Southern Egypt. The stage is set for the dark ages.
Gildas, a monk who was eventually sainted, founded a Monastery in Brittany. His history, De excidio et conquestu Britaniae was written about 550 CE. It speaks about how the Saxons were punished and tortured, for being disobedience and faithless to the omnipotent being that he believed in. The Saxons later invaded Britain. This is just one example of the brutality that was carried out by a religious culture affecting another. Others include, use of brutal instrument used to “beat the Evil out”. Many Advances might have come about during the Dark ages, but fear of religious strong holds repercussions were too great.
An easy example would be Copernicus. In the later part of the Dark ages, one of the world’s great scientists, Copernicus, discovered that the universe did not revolve around earth. This of course went against a few religions believes, that their particular omnipotent being created all that is, around us. Copernicus did not publish his finding for many years for fear of the church. Finally in his late sixties he published his book. The church put him to death, setting an example to any other person who might challenge their myths and tales. This is a prime example how those religions affected culture, and kept humanity and its cultures in the dark ages.
In these religious myths and tales there was a system of superstitions. The superstitions go on to say that there was an after life and if you were a good obedient slave to which ever omnipotent being that particular religion made up, you would have a peaceful and happy after life. However if you were not an obedient slave to this omnipotent being, you would have a horrible after life that would last for eternity. These superstitions also made people fearful of any new knowledge that came out during the Dark ages. Again we can see how Religion affects culture and by oppressing knowledge and keeping humanity stagnant. Lastly, aside from the beliefs of religion that affect culture. There was still another physical side; the torture, disease and plagues that went along with monasteries and the flat out brutality that came with the inquisitions.
During the late Dark ages (1000- 1500) Monasteries housed the so-called “sick“, who did not believe in the religions myths and the mentally handicapped who, were believed to be posed by demons. Both of those groups were kept in the basements of the monasteries were they could “beat the evil out of them”. Because of crowding and poor sanitation in the monasteries, they became a perfect incubator for disease, famine, and plagues. Finally toward the very end of the Dark ages. The deterioration of Catholicism, which had supported monasteries, led to a widespread movement of suppression of them. England was the first to do this by far. Although they had different reasons then the rest of Europe, they destroyed over 600 monasteries. England was motivated when Henry the VIII wanted a divorce. The rest of Europe sometime later, just wanted to be ride of the diseases and plagues.
The inquisitions were another act carried out in the name different cultures omnipotent beings. The first inquisition was the Papal inquisition. Started in 1233 CE, it was known for it’s horrendous act of torture. Although this particular inquisition murdered many who did not happen to believe in it’s myths, tales and believe structure, it pales in comparison of the second inquisition. The Spanish inquisition was notoriously harsher then the already brutal Papal inquisition. The Spanish inquisition started toward the later part of the Dark Age, 1478 CE. The Spanish inquisition was so bad that it became known and feared through out all the cultures of Europe. Once again we can see how religion has the power to affect both cultures and geography.
The western religions of the worlds have so many other similar examples to choose from. One that must be mentioned is the missionary conquistadors that completely decimated most South American cultures such as the Inca. We have seen pretty thoroughly how religion affects culture and geography. Also changes in culture can also change religions, although not to often and the results are never cataclysmic like the reverse. It can be stated that they both can affect each other.

[Maelakin]

I see an attempt at making a point, but I also see failure to substantiate the claims made within the paper. To be honest, I really don’t understand what you are trying to suggest with this paper. It would be beneficial if you posted an outline for the paper as a reference point if you want actual opinions on the topic material and its presentation.

[Erin 13]

Originally posted by Maelakin: I see an attempt at making a point, but I also see failure to substantiate the claims made within the paper. To be honest, I really don’t understand what you are trying to suggest with this paper. It would be beneficial if you posted an outline for the paper as a reference point if you want actual opinions on the topic material and its presentation.

There is no outline yet. Pretty much just thoughts typed out at this point.

The paper is on, religions effect geology and geologies effects on religion. There are no points being made just examples of religions effect on geology and geologies effects on religion. Not making any claims either, just reciting some history.

I am looking for any other opinions on which other examples to use.

Thanks : )

erin - firstly, welcome to IW. [img]smile.gif[/img]

it's pretty hard to comment on a list of events from history. as with maelakin, the big question i asked as reading it was: what ties these events together? if the events have something in common, what is it?

imo, i dont think you should ask others what you should write on. rather, look inside and ask/look for what moves you, what interests you. if you dont know what that is, try reviewing what you have, like this:

each paragraph should provide an idea or lead to a conclusion, fleshed out with evidence or examples. re-read your paragraphs and ask yourself what conclusion a reader will come to. if you're not sure, re-write it so it comes to some conclusion.

once each paragraph has a "reason for being", put those conclusions together and ask yourself "what are do these build towards?" or even more broadly "do they all fit together?" you'll probably find that some fit, others need tweaking, and still others need to be dropped altogether. but hopefully, with the exercise you'll uncover what it is you want to write about.

then, when you find what it is you want to write about, explore the topic and come to some new way of thinking or new way of looking at the world, using your historical narrative to support your thoughts.

if you have a topic for the paper that you'd like to bounce around, or if you are looking for second opinions on the weight of your evidence, i'd be open to reading more. [img]smile.gif[/img]

good luck!

[Larry_OHF]

A friend of mine that is a member of this forum is an expert in this area, and has graduated with this degree if I understood correctly. If I run into him, as he is not here often, I will ask him to peep in here for you.

[Timber Loftis]

Without commenting on the substance, I would advise that you first do what (most) all academic writers of any merit do -- back up, take what you've written as "brainstorming," create an outline broken down into discreet points, and reintegrate your work into that outline. Ideas, however merit-ful they may be, must be conveyed to others. From the posts herein, you may gather that you have not done that as efficiently as it could be done.

Let me use an example. Friday, I began work on a large project for a client, containing four separate parts. I worked around 30 hours on it from Friday to Monday, creating a huge memorandum addressing the four issues. Since Monday, I have ripped the memo into four memos, rewritten them all, added a summary chart for one memo, added a bullet-point summary for another, and am currently (yes, right now) working on an overall strategy outline to convey all these ideas in a congealed way to the client and my bosses. These work like layers of an onion, with the "skinny" versions given up front and more detail accessible (the "fat") on the issues, should the reader/reviewer desire more detail, accessible beneath the first layers. All of this has changed my initial conclusions little, but has served to make them more accessible to the audience of my documents. Ergo... go do an outline.

[ 11-14-2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Erin 13: Hiya ppl I am a student majoring in theology. I have to write a paper on religion and geography and I have a very very ruff draft. I noticed this place seems to be a hotbed of thought so, any opinions or thoughts on it would be greatly appretiated. I know it is long and very poorly writen thus far but thanks in advance : P Many people of the world succumb (note 1) to one religion or another. It is indeed a powerful force it has the power to shape geography (note 2) and culture in many ways. The reverse is true also; geography and culture can also shape religion.

note 1: You might want to pick a different word. I don't think many people would like to equate religion with disease.
note 2: this must be what they mean when they talk about "faith that can move mountains". [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] I couldn't resist that one. Seriously, though...I think any rational person will find that plate tectonics is a much more powerful influence on geography than religion. The converse to your initial hypothesis is intriguing--the one about geography shaping religion.

Originally posted by Erin 13: Geography and cultures affects effects on religions Just like any story and myth, most religions are laced with ideas and values that come from the culture that made it up. Take for example the stories of the Grimm brothers. The two Brothers created many famous stories like Hanzel and Gretyl, Snow White, Cinderella, and Little Red Riding Hood. All of their Fairy Tales are laced with culture. Any examples you might wish to note? It will help clarify your point. The same is true with most religions. Only one out of six great religions of the world possible escape this, and that would be Buddhism. This appears to be the only religion that is more based on finding answers from within not so much the following of fairy tales. A Zen koan can't be a fairy tale? Aren't fairy tales designed to relate a moral lesson? Religions affects on geography and culture The effects that geography and culture have on religion although it appears to be pretty great, sense it plays a part in the creation of the religions. Those effects are nothing compared to when religion rears its ugly head [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] You're a theology major. Why are you wanting to study something ugly? and takes effects on geography and culture. Lets look at just two examples of this. First would be the constant religious wars in the Middle East. Now there are too many wars and battle to write about, in this small paper. So I will talk about them as a hole in general. The Second Example would be the Dark ages. Religious wars in the Middle East The Middle East has always been a territory to fight over for different religious reasons. Mainly these religious countries or tribes believed that there was an all-powerful being. The named would differ from believe system to another. Some times it was called Ala and sometimes this being was called god. Whether it was the crusades or Romans vs. the Jews. The wars are always fought in name of these so-called gods. Most wars have politics and/or economics as a foundation; only sometimes do they have the flimsiest veil of being "religious". Countless people have died for this cause, in gods name. Countless people were murdered for this cause. And even more, innocent, people have been murdered for these other people’s believes in that cause. The biggest tragedy behind all the religious wars fought in the Middle East, is that the people who fight them believe as though they’ve done no wrong. It was breed into these peoples culture that they need not take responsibility for their actions. Not according to the passages from the Koran that I have read and the Muslims I have known personally. They were able sit back and point the blame on a story book that told them there was an omnipotent being in the sky that forced them to do those actions, or that they were carrying out one of these beings wills. Of course were battles are waged, geography tends to change, both by the earth that was destroyed in battle and the borders that man put on it. The Dark Ages The second example we will look at is the dark ages. The Dark Ages refer to an extended period of time were human civilization remained stagnant, and no major advance’s were made for humanity’s knowledge. This period from tends to differ slightly from, book to book. However, generally, it is agreed that the dark ages encompass at least from 500 CE to 1500 CE. Around 525, Cosman Indicopleustes travels up the Nile and writes Topographia Christiane. The latter half of the sixth century was the golden age of Byzantine art. Primitive matches appear in China by 600. Callincus invents Greek Fire, which will burn in water, around 660. Omar Khayyam lived during the latter part of the 11th century; he was a wonderful poet and could solve cubic equations algebraically. In 1397, Manuel Chrysoloras became professor of Greek at the university in Florence and began generating a lot of interest in Classical philosophy; his efforts helped "jump-start" the Renaissance. I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Now of course religion is not the factor that cast humanity into the dark ages, but it obviously played a major hand. Both in getting humanity and all its cultures into the dark ages and keeping all of them they’re for so long. A series of outbreaks of plague all across Europe during the latter part of the sixth century didn't help, either.

I have to stop here, and not becuase this post will be interminably long if I don't.

Why are you a theology major? Are you trying to study religion so you can find all its flaws and expose them? You are missing the entire point of having religion at all.

Reading further, I find statements in your paper such as:

In these religious myths and tales there was a system of superstitions. The superstitions go on to say that there was an after life and if you were a good obedient slave to which ever omnipotent being that particular religion made up, you would have a peaceful and happy after life. However if you were not an obedient slave to this omnipotent being, you would have a horrible after life that would last for eternity.

There are two conclusions I reach:
1) this is, as you state, a rough draft and needs a lot of work. It needs more than work--you need to go back to the drawing board and do some more research on your history or you need to choose another topic.
2) you are not a theology major and are trying to stir the flames in this "hotbed of thought".

If the former is true then I wish you luck; I, also, had to rework papers from scratch at times.
If the latter is true then there is nothing I can say that will make any difference.

[ 11-14-2003, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Erin 13: . The paper is on, religions effect geology and geologies effects on religion. There are no points being made just examples of religions effect on geology and geologies effects on religion. Not making any claims either, just reciting some history. I am looking for any other opinions on which other examples to use. Thanks : )

It's sedimentary really, religion is metamorphic and is igneous to change.

Welcome to Ironworks Erin, can I ask how old you are?

[ 11-14-2003, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

[Erin 13]

Shesh,
Not sure I know what I got myself into.
It sounds like you must have alot of ppl making stuff up on this forum. For one person to ask "substantiate the claims" is one thing. But. WOW! alot of ppl do.

I really was just looking for some help and some more examples. The paper is an informative paper on the effects religion has on geolograpy and the effects geograpy have on religion. This subject was mandated by our professor. Not like I choose it ( however I do think it is interesting. ) Everything I posted was just thoughts typed out, or "brainstorming" as someone cried that I call it.
But whatever.

At any rate all the data in the post can be found in both:

Theology for Beginners by Francis Joseph Sheed
and
Basic Theology by Charles Caldwell Ryrie
I am not going back into each book to find the exact pages either. Your lucky I even went back to find the books.

I haven't looked, but I am sure you can all cross reference the data in Brittanica Encyclopedia or the Encarta Encyclopedia.

For the guy who thinks I am not even a theology major. I take classes at University of Illinois - Chicago. And I am still as student so I don't presume to know it all, but I am in 200 and 300 level classes for theology.

Well for those who added constructive advise: Thank you.
To those who welcomed me: Thank you.
For those who asked me to defend myself or decided to pick appart the notes with out offering any constructive advice: Please do something better with your time.

Was just looking for more examples : (

[Timber Loftis]

You got issues with constructive criticism there Erin. Everyone who posted took the time to read your work, digest it, and post thoughtful comments. And, you threw it back in their face. That's not a very appropriate way to react when you asked for help to begin with.

Everything everyone posted was good advice, by the way. Let me be clear here. What you don't need are more random examples to toss in the mix. You need clarity of writing and a good thorough grammar and spelling checker. Right now, the essay has nice thoughts, but is about what I'd expect to see from a college student given thirty minutes or an hour in class to write an essay. It's decent and intriguing, but not well-organized or complete. It needs serious work to be a take-home assignment that gets high marks.

But, you can take my advice or leave it. At the end of the day, it's your work, and it is your decision as to how much pride you will take in it.

As for us being lucky you looked at your books and told us the titles you were using as a reference, it was a little bit rude. It's a very unthankful attitude to take. It is actually you who are lucky, lucky that we are willing to review your work and help you make it better. Lucky we take the time. I could have billed a client .25 hours at $150/hr. while typing this post. You shouldn't scoff at us.

Welcome to Ironworks, fellow Chicagoan -- and good luck with the assignment.

[ 11-14-2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]