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Old 05-19-2001, 05:04 PM   #11
Moiraine
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps
Age: 59
Posts: 2,474
Awww ... thanks Wah !

Here in France we have basically two solutions to take care of children during working hours.

When the children are too small to go to school, or during primary school, we can choose to let them go to a kind of Daycare, called 'Crèche'; these are public structures, and don't seem to present the kinds of abuse that you mention. Or we can let them go to a 'Nanny', which is a person who keeps the children in her own house along with her family (I have never heard of male Nannies ... ); the Nanny is subject to periodic controls, and has the right to take care of a maximum of 3 children.

I did the Nanny choice - my son is 10, and has been going to the same Nanny since he was 2 months old. This gives him a very loving and familial environment when his parents are not with him. He and his Nanny love each other very much ! And since she has 3 children herself, and keeps several others (some only part time), he gets the opportunity for relationships with other children as well. I think it is very important for him, since he doesn't have any brother or sister - yet . Some of the other children who go to the same Nanny he has been playing with almost since he was born !

After primary school - this starts to become a problem. School can take care of them until the parents come fetch them, but school offers nothing besides letting them wait. So as next year will be my son's first year in ??? school (how do you call school after primary school and before high school ?), I have chosen to change my work contract to stop working on Wednesdays, so as to spend the whole day with him, at least during the 2 next years. We'll see how it works.

We in France are just starting to discover the extent of sexual abuse children can be subject to, but it seems to happen mostly inside families, or from - priests. And the Pope still won't allow Catholic priests to get married ...

Sexual abuse of children is, to me, the worst sin a person can commit. I am totally OK with whatever sexual life a person has, as long as it involves only fully adult people, people who can take care of themselves, and as long as it doesn't involve hurt. But abusing children ! Taking pleasure in something that will damage a child for the rest of his life, for the child cannot defend himself - it's just horrible. Horrible.

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Old 05-19-2001, 08:57 PM   #12
Wah
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Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,160
Yep, I've heard of 'Creche' too - hmmmm, wonder why it never occured to me?

(scribble, scribble) Uh huh, nannies are part of the family too! It says in the book about a "parental figure", so I guess if the mom/dad really has to get a job then this is the best option.

But a more expensive option for some people. So this is another thing I'll have to evaluate.

But you're right - I had a nanny for several years (until she moved to the US) and she was fabulous. (we put worms in her knitting bag, )

(but then she'd make it get it out ourselves or she'll "cook" them she says, lol)

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Old 05-20-2001, 09:37 AM   #13
bilqis
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: WA, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,328
Quote:
Originally posted by Wah:

B) Is there a link between this theory, and adolescent?
in other words, is this a considerable factor in teenagers who don't listen to their parents? Is the fault within the teenager, or the parent - who may have suffered this treatment UNKNOWINGLY in the past? Also discuss things such as teenage pregnancies and drug-taking as being "cool" and "socialable".

NOTE: Is this behaviour because the child is "grown-up" and wishes to take on an identity that they are unable to? Is it that they are WILLING to share love with others but they can't give it back - therefore they turn to drugs and other things for this "attention" that they never got?

Wow Bahamut! Very complex questions! There are no simple answers to these. So many factors to consider. Here are my very American) opinions, laugh if you will :

Adolescence is one of the most difficult times in any persons life. Teens are struggling to become adults with all that means, while still wanting the freedom to choose their own friends, activities and life style. Parents feel responsible to keep their teens safe, and to ensure that they learn correct social skills, as well as responsibility for committments. These seemingly conflicting attitudes can create tension in a family. Teens often see their parents as keeping them from growing up, perhaps not trusting them to take care of themselves, as interfering clueless adults. "They just don't GET it!"
Parents struggle with maintaining a good relationship with their teens while still expecting them to adhere to the 'reasonable' limits they have set for them. Communication between them is very important, but not always successful due to many outside factors.

Not all teens have spent time in Day Care settings as young children, and not all teens have spent time in BAD Day Care settings. Those who have may be more inclined to listen to their peers than to their parents or other adults. But Day Care would be only one small influence.

One possible factor that wasn't mentioned is Media - particularly television. Here in the states almost every television program that is aimed at young adolescents and teens portray the adults/parents as stupid, and the kids as being the only ones who know anything. Considering how many hours per day an American teen watches television, (or has watched their entire lives), this has more of an impact than we'd like to believe.

Parents are often busy, especially in families with both parents working outside the home. Teens are often working outside the home after school and on weekends, plus are in other school related activities such as sports or debate club, etc. These factors greatly impact the amount of time families have to communicate well together, and can cause them all to be somewhat unfocused when they talk with each other. Many American families have to set aside 'family time' in order to keep those lines of communication open. Many families just never get around to it. This can create a situation where the teen does not feel connected to their family.

Those teens who have not had or not felt the connection and unconditional love from their parents or guardians can have a tendency to turn to 'at risk' behaviors for the sense of belonging they are lacking. Being "cool" and wanting to belong can be factors in a teen joining a gang, or taking drugs. Teens who are looking to be loved and accepted may turn to sexual relationships to find it, leading to teen pregnancy. The rising rate of teen pregnancy in the U.S. may be a significant sign to us that many childrens need for acceptance and love are not being met by our current life styles.


Wow.. I'd better stop. This turned out to be really LONG! Maybe I should have emailed it to you?

All of the above is just my own opinion gleaned from observation and reading.



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Old 05-20-2001, 10:27 AM   #14
Bahamut
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Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Manila, Philippines
Age: 39
Posts: 4,864
simple. there is a slight social inclination toward friends and family. that is simple. children still need the support of the parents, for the parents are the ones that solidify our morals and solidify ourselves if you get what i mean... im eating a pizza on my other hand... anyway. if i had a test like that, id be really happy for i like the topic...

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Old 05-20-2001, 10:49 AM   #15
Wah
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Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,160
Quote:
Originally posted by bilqis:
Wow Bahamut! Very complex questions! There are no simple answers to these. So many factors to consider. Here are my very American) opinions, laugh if you will :

Not all teens have spent time in Day Care settings as young children, and not all teens have spent time in BAD Day Care settings. Those who have may be more inclined to listen to their peers than to their parents or other adults. But Day Care would be only one small influence.

One possible factor that wasn't mentioned is Media - particularly television. Here in the states almost every television program that is aimed at young adolescents and teens portray the adults/parents as stupid, and the kids as being the only ones who know anything. Considering how many hours per day an American teen watches television, (or has watched their entire lives), this has more of an impact than we'd like to believe.

Wow! Thanks again bilquis! You've just helped me 'breeze through' that question! In fact if that question does come up in the exams then I's suppose it wouldn't be too hard to remember the name "bilquis", along with all the other garbage in my head

The media bit will definately get me +++++++ points! Its something that even the teacher didn't mention!



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Old 05-20-2001, 10:51 AM   #16
Melusine
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Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 43
Posts: 6,541
Moiraine, you've brought up the issue that just keeps haunting me as well, you are so right that child abuse is probably the worst sin anybody can commit! Being French, I'm sure you've heard of the Dutroux case (in Belgium) as well... I cannot believe the huge blunders that were made in that case by the government and judicial system! Did you know that the only reason why he is still imprisoned is because he tried to escape and used violence? Otherwise he'd probably already been let off for lack of evidence, and that possibility is still there anyway! For everybody who doesn't know, Dutroux is suspected of having killed several young girls (aged 9 to 14 I think) and having been involved in a major child porn network, so large that politicians and judges are said to have been involved as well (which is also the reason why the case is taking so long...).
Anyway sorry to clog up your thread with this Wah, just wanted to let Moiraine know I agree 100 %.

As for daycare, which is called creche in Holland as well I think Moiraine mentions a good point, namely that it is very good for the development of toddlers/young children to see other kids their age, esp. if they have no siblings. I have no idea what creches are like in other countries, but I think they're pretty good in Holland. The only problem would be if the parents just dump their kids there every single day of the week. I went to a creche when I was little, but only for about half of the week. This was a perfect solution, as it meant that half of the week, my mother would have all her attention only for me, and the other half I would go to the daycare, meet all my little friends, play games together and learn a lot of valuable things.
Hey Wah, good luck with your exams btw! My sister is taking them as well these weeks!

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Old 05-20-2001, 11:01 AM   #17
Bahamut
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Join Date: March 12, 2001
Location: Manila, Philippines
Age: 39
Posts: 4,864
i never really realized till now. BALANCE. remember it well. as per said in the the question that there are limitations and qualities based on whatever circumstance, giving it both balanced times will actually cancel these barriers that hinder children developing into a more fully developed human being. with daycare centers, you are sacrificing family values and one-on-one talks, or how do you say this... quality time together? anyways, going to a daycare center is good for the childs social status toward relating to other people, and family, well, the social bonding with relatives-your own blood. but then , if the family has more time, with more family friends, cousin's friends, etc., if the family is large enough for interaction outside the house, then its not necessary for daycare centers, given that the parents have time for their children too.

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Old 05-20-2001, 11:03 AM   #18
Yorick
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
Wow, what a thread, I don't have the time to read it all now, but I shall. Looks very interesting. All the best Wah.

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Old 05-20-2001, 11:19 AM   #19
bilqis
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: WA, USA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,328
Quote:
Originally posted by Wah:
Wow! Thanks again bilquis! You've just helped me 'breeze through' that question! In fact if that question does come up in the exams then I's suppose it wouldn't be too hard to remember the name "bilquis", along with all the other garbage in my head

The media bit will definately get me +++++++ points! Its something that even the teacher didn't mention!
You're welcome Wah!! And man am I blushing!! I mixed up your name with Bahamut's. *sheesh* My apologies to both of you!

Wah.. what's the next question?


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Old 05-20-2001, 11:21 AM   #20
Bahamut
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Age: 39
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and what does that mean bilqis??? teehee

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