Democratic Party squabble - erm... Debate

[Timber Loftis]

I want Dean to win. Mostly 'cause I've met him.

Sunday NYTimes:

Democrats' First Presidential Debate Shows Party Fissures
By ADAM NAGOURNEY


COLUMBIA, S.C., May 3 — Nine Democratic presidential candidates battled tonight over the war in Iraq and over how to provide health care insurance for all Americans, in a debate that highlighted deep fissures in the party that several candidates warned could endanger its chances of winning back the White House.

It was the first time these candidates have met in debate, and it almost instantly turned into a squabble that revealed strong — and in one case apparently personal — differences in this crowded field, on national security and domestic policy.

Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts squabbled so intensely over their differences on the war in Iraq and on each other's credentials that the Rev. Al Sharpton of New York finally stepped in and urged an end to disputes that he said could hurt the Democrats in their attempt to win the White House.

"Republicans are watching," Mr. Sharpton said, adding that "we should not have the bottom line tonight be that George Bush won because we were taking cheap shots at one another."

Senator Bob Graham of Florida said: "We're not fighting each other. We're trying to select one of us to be the opponent of George Bush."

Even amid the squabbling, the debate revealed broad differences among the Democrats on what has emerged as one of the critical issues of the race: how to provide health care insurance for all Americans.

A proposal by Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri to abolish President Bush's tax cuts and use the money to provide subsidies to business to cover health care insurance was repeatedly attacked by his opponents, in a sign of concern that Mr. Gephardt might have taken the lead on what could be a central issue in the primary.

Senator John Edwards of North Carolina described the Gephardt plan as a giveaway that "takes money directly out of the pockets of working people, and I know it gives it to corporations." Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut called Mr. Gephardt's proposal a "big-spending Democratic idea of the past," suggesting that it could allow Republicans once again to portray Democrats as a party of big government.

Mr. Gephardt, who appeared to enjoy the attention, even if it came in the form of criticism, defended his health care plan and criticized his opponents for supporting an end to only some of Mr. Bush's taxes.

"We can't come along and say, `Well, I'll keep half the Bush tax cut,' or `I'll keep three quarters of the Bush tax cut,' " Mr. Gephardt said. "If you like George Bush's tax cuts, stick with him, vote for him. But if you want to finally solve this problem that's bedeviled our people for a hundred years, let's get it done."

The exchanges came in a 90-minute debate sponsored by ABC News that seemed unlikely to draw much attention across the nation. The debate began at 9 p.m. on a Saturday and, with the exception of one television station in Washington, was not broadcast live anywhere in the country. C-Span is planning to show it four times on Sunday.

The debate was moderated by George Stephanopoulos, who tried, with more than a little success, to impose order on a stage filled with Democratic candidates competing for a moment of time on television. The other candidates were Carol Moseley Braun, the former senator from Illinois, and Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio.

In the process, there were some moments of agreement among the candidates, particularly as Mr. Stephanopoulos pushed them to take positions on issues that might not play well in South Carolina, where this first debate was being held.

None said they supported a law in South Carolina that made sodomy illegal. And only Mr. Sharpton said that he supported a federal law that would license and regulate handguns. Mr. Lieberman went out of his way to say that he had not agreed with Al Gore when Mr. Gore endorsed such a proposal when he ran for president in 2000, with Mr. Lieberman as his running-mate.

The tensions between Dr. Dean and Mr. Kerry were particularly evident; Mr. Stephanopoulos goaded them a bit, but it did not take much. Dr. Dean scowled openly as Mr. Kerry spoke.

Mr. Stephanopoulos noted that Dr. Dean had been quoted as questioning Mr. Kerry's courage in an interview last week, after one of Mr. Kerry's campaign aides assailed Dr. Dean's fitness for office and mentioned that he had never served in the military.

"Everyone respects Senator Kerry's extraordinary, heroic Vietnam record, and I do as well," Dr. Dean said. "However, what I would have preferred — this is 30 years later — I would have preferred, if Senator Kerry had some concerns about my fitness to serve, that he speak to me directly about that rather than through his spokesman."

A moment later, Mr. Kerry took issue with Dr. Dean, invoking his own record of combat in Vietnam. "I really think that anybody who has measured the tests that I think I have performed over the last years on any number of fights in the United States Congress, as well as my service in Vietnam, that I don't need any lectures in courage from Howard Dean," he said.

Mr. Lieberman criticized both Dr. Dean for opposing the war and Mr. Kerry for offering what he described as ambivalent support for it, saying that that could undercut the party next year.

"No Democrat will be elected president in 2004 who is not strong on defense, and this war was a test of that," he said. Mr. Lieberman said the position of those two candidates "will not give the people confidence about our party's willingness to make the tough decisions to protect their security."

Dr. Dean disputed Mr. Lieberman's suggestion that his position would allow him to be portrayed as weak. And Mr. Kerry defended himself as a consistent advocate of removing Mr. Hussein.

It fell to Mr. Edwards to play the peacemaker. "Whatever personal differences exist, Governor Dean or Senator Kerry — either one would be a better president than the one we have," he said.

[Attalus]

I want Hillary to run. That would be a blast. But, I want Bush to win, mostly because I've met him. Oh, and that I totally agree with him and think he has been a great President. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Hillary is too smart to run against Bush. She'll wait and make her move when she can *win.* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

All Bush has done well with has been war and security. You can't claim he's been "great" until he at least lives up to SOME of his campaign promises. The economy is still in the [img]graemlins/toilet.gif[/img] and he has done nothing to help health care or education -- two of his biggest platform points.

Truth be told, I like Lieberman a fair bit.

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Hillary is too smart to run against Bush. She'll wait and make her move when she can *win.* [img]tongue.gif[/img] All Bush has done well with has been war and security. You can't claim he's been "great" until he at least lives up to SOME of his campaign promises. The economy is still in the [img]graemlins/toilet.gif[/img] and he has done nothing to help health care or education -- two of his biggest platform points. Truth be told, I like Lieberman a fair bit.

Well, FDR ran on "I can promise you, your boys will not be going off into foreign wars." Things change, and security has been the #1 priority. But you're right, Hillary is way too smart to jump in on this one.

[Wilbur]

You can blame Bush for the economy, but supply side economics didn't work right away when Regan did it and I don't see why it should for Bush either. Of course thats all based on me thinking that it works, which not everybody does.

[TheCrimsomBlade]

should hillary clinton (no capitol leters) win and become the first female socialist president she won't live to see her first year out. The C.I.A. will take her out just like they took out J.F.K. and blame it on the Talaban or Cuba!
I have a $500.00 bet with a friend of mine that she is in a body bag before the first day of her second year in office Unless we inpeach (sp?) her first.

[john]

I'd love to see Hilery run as Deans' vice pres.They'd get mt vote!Had enough of the Bush boys!!

[The Hierophant]

Ever notice how modern democracy in any country almost universally ends up being a two-party factional spite-fest?