Do ya like guns???

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Lanesra: Quote: Originally posted by Charlie: Pardon my ignorance. What's "skeet"?

It's what posh people do on ice. [/QUOTE]Oh...I thought that was skoot.

[ 02-11-2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

The life of my own wife and daughter mean more to me than any other person's life, and they both depend on me for some type of safety. If I allowed a man to enter my home and harm them, then I have failed my family. If I tried to defend them, then I at least tried. The man is in the wrong for entering my private home with the intent to do harm. Now, my house is not spacious enough to swing a shovel at him. If I had one, I would be sweinging it at his head. Why? because my intention is to stop him from progressing. But...what if he is so much larger and stronger than I am that he can easily dodge or deflect the swing and continue to make aggrivated assault on us? Well, then I have failed, and will have to suffer my family at his descretion, then maybe he will move on to hurt my neighbor who is 73 years old. (Her house was broke into last month, but all the guy found was an angry Chow! Lol!) Anyway...my point is...no matter how big the guy is...I bet a gun would stop him from continuing to harm my family. I have to stop the man from succeeding in a crime. Right? What if I could do nothing to shoot him, because my shovel was out in the gargage? Should I ask him to "hold on a minute,,,I need to go get my shovel so we can fight like civil people"? It is either he kill me or I kill him. I am gonna decide that he should die. Afterall...he would not die if he had stayed outside my house and not woke me up.

I am with you on this Larry. Especialy this part: "Afterall...he would not die if he had stayed outside my house and not woke me up." If people werent scummos , then people like Larry wouldnt need to buy guns. As Larry said, he could be over powered by a larger man. How do you resolve something like your wife geting raped or killed by an intruder simply because he was physicaly stronger than you?? What good would a shovel do you against someone the size or Lennox Lewis or even someone the size of Animal from the boards?I probably feel the same way about my wife as Larry does about his. If someone were to hurt her, my shooting them would be the kindest thing I could do. Anyone who breaks into my house will be killed. It is MY house. The easiest way to stay alive is to stay out of it.

[ 02-11-2003, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: The Hunter of Jahanna ]

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Larry, several points : - First, that guy you describe would be a thief, right ? Then his intent would be to STEAL not to HARM - If he is a professional thief, then he will have some sort of good sense - sense enough to know that a robbery would cost him much much less than a kill ... - IF he is a sensible kind of person, you can either stop him by harming him, or let him do the robbery and stay safe - If he is not sensible, and he is armed, then he's got as much a chance to harm you as you have to harm him ... But in any case, won't the danger be greater if he gets a weapon out BECAUSE he's seen yours ?

1. I believe criminals in the area would wait until we were gone before breaking in to steal. Therefore, if he is in the house while we are there, then his intent is to probably kidnap MaryBeth, and he would try killing me to buy himself some running time and to erase a person that can stop/identify/harm him back. He would try to not wake us up, but if we did awake, then he will try to remove us from his path.
2. People do not think rationally in the "heat of the moment". Many crimes are committed on a spur of the moment thing, that would never have happened if rational thinking were allowed to exist.
3. Whether he has a gun or a knife or neither in his hand...I have to stop him from taking my baby.
4. Again, if he merely sees me, he will try anything to get away from me, whether I am brandishing firearms or not. Even if he saw my gun...he would probably try to fight or run, because he don't wanna get caught. They almost never surrender, because criminals have deranged minds and cannot think clearly.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Moiraine: Larry, several points : - First, that guy you describe would be a thief, right ? Then his intent would be to STEAL not to HARM - If he is a professional thief, then he will have some sort of good sense - sense enough to know that a robbery would cost him much much less than a kill ... - IF he is a sensible kind of person, you can either stop him by harming him, or let him do the robbery and stay safe - If he is not sensible, and he is armed, then he's got as much a chance to harm you as you have to harm him ... But in any case, won't the danger be greater if he gets a weapon out BECAUSE he's seen yours ?

-How can you be sure he isn't out to harm you? A new trend both here and in England is the home invasion. They aren't always armed with uzis as some here would have you believe. There are many cases where criminals knowingly enter an occupied home in order to make the individuals tell them where their valuables are hidden. I think that torture is the preferred method to make one talk, not asking politely.

-Did you say time out and ask him what he is doing in your house? What constitutes a professional thief? I have always found this statement odd. It almost implies legitmacy.

-If he is a thief, is he sensible? Doesn't seem all that sensible to me, to be a thief! Odds are also in the home owners favor, because they know the layout of their homes much better than a thief would.

Since you don't have firearms for protection, what do you use? Do you rely on a call to the Gendimere (I don't think I spelled that right! Sorry for the ignorance.) Are they usually fast to arrive or do they take a while?

In Los Angeles the police don't not even respond to burglar alarms anymore. Just too many false alarms. Heard that on National Public Radio several weeks back. Here in Knoxville, some years back, my brother-in-law's alarm went off. The security company notified me after they called the police. I beat the police by a good twenty minutes. What kind of protection is that?

[Lanesra]

Has anyone here managed to see michael Moores documentry film 'Bowling for Columbine'. I managed to see it last night shortly after reading this thread, I thought it was excellent. I particularly enjoyed seeing Charlton heston squirming when questioned by Moore as to why the N.R.A held rallys in both Columbine & Flint only weeks after the fatal shootings in those towns, and refusing to look at the picture of the six year old, shot dead by a classmate.

Charlton makes a big deal of holding his rifle in the air and shouting 'from my cold dead hand' unfortunatly where guns are concerned this is very often the case.

You can find out more about the film here: http://www.michaelmoore.com/

Originally posted by Moiraine: Nice remark MagiK - so, as soon as you have sent me the money, I'll buy all the French gun factories and convert them to toy factories. [img]smile.gif[/img] Then perhaps will I be entitled to have an opinion ?

Who said anything about you not having a right to an opinion?

Altho I was dismayed that this thread that had nothing whatsoever to do with pro or anti gun sentiments but was about the reletive emrits of a particular firearm got hijacked into a pro/anti gun thread...not very nice and I myself bear some fo the blame.

As for buying all the guns in France, all my statement was ment to convey was the idea...that "Before one picks on a particular country, one must look closely at ones own country before squaking too loudly.".

Originally posted by Masklinn: Thx for this answer. Hunting...not my thing at all (you guessed it I bet [img]smile.gif[/img] ), but ok. Competiting...can be fun. Collecting...just heavier than stamp [img]smile.gif[/img] But... Quote: I own my handgun for personal defense

Do you feel so insecure where you live that you need a gun ?
And a last question if you don't mind : Do you let it at home or do you always carry it ?[/QUOTE]LLAO That was funny Maklinn

Yes my guns are way heavier than stamps, and my neighbors really give me strange looks when I am loading them in the car to go practice, but As for feelings of security...I have lived in and visited any number of countries and not a single one of them was completely safe for residents or tourists, gun laws or no. I hear that some east asian countries are very safe...however their laws are draconian compared to western cultures.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Lanesra: Charlton makes a big deal of holding his rifle in the air and shouting 'from my cold dead hand' unfortunatly where guns are concerned this is very often the case. [/URL]

NO, it is not the case! Very, very few of the total number of firearms currently held in private hands in this country are involved in crime. Lord we have someting like 250,000,000 firearms that owned by something like 70,000,000 citizens! How can you say that "this is very often the case." That's a rather ill informed statement! Granted we do have a high crime rate, but there are other far more serious factors involved with crime than firearms.

Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

And the purpose of a Butcher knife? is to tear and rend flesh, the purpose of a bow and arrow is to kill and maim, the purpose of the tool is immaterial, the use to which a HUMAN puts the tool is all that matters.

I know some hard core christian types who consider a OuiJa board an evil item, I however maintain that it is just an inanimate piece of junk, it is only the will of a HUMAN that determines the good or ill of an inanimate object. The thought you and Yorick seem to be conveying emotional FEELINGs instead of rational thought to the issue. In my opinion any way.

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

And the purpose of a Butcher knife? is to tear and rend flesh, the purpose of a bow and arrow is to kill and maim, the purpose of the tool is immaterial, the use to which a HUMAN puts the tool is all that matters.

I know some hard core christian types who consider a OuiJa board an evil item, I however maintain that it is just an inanimate piece of junk, it is only the will of a HUMAN that determines the good or ill of an inanimate object. The thought you and Yorick seem to be conveying emotional FEELINGs instead of rational thought to the issue. In my opinion any way.[/QUOTE]No, The comparison between a butcher knife and a gun is not valid. Whereas a butcher knife is a tool used for rending dead flesh in order to make it suitable to eat, a gun is designed to kill people at range, with ease.

I tend to agree with Yorik (*shock*), but also with the other people here who have said this is like religion - everyone *knows* they are in the right, nobody will ever change.

I will simply part with one argument i have used a few times. I live in a country with strict gun laws. Nobody here needs a gun to feel safe, because the criminals don't have them. Why? Because we have gun control. Muggers don't carry them, thieves don't carry them. You can get mugged, robbed, beaten up, yes. Your chances of getting shot? Minimal. They don't have guns because of the gun control, so we don't need them. Result - fewer guns on the street, fewer guns available to the criminals. Result? Fewer people get shot and killed.

And as a nice by-product, nobody gets disgruntled at their school/workplace, picks up an easily available lethal ranged weapon, and kills large numbers of innocent people. I tend to look on that as a positive.

[ 02-11-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Bardan the Slayer ]