Do ya like guns???

[Moiraine]

Nah, Nachtrafe, nitro's purpose was to blow pieces of mountains - to create tunnels for trains for example - not to KILL. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You won't convince me that guns were invented for playing balltrap ...

[Masklinn]

However, there are a lot of people who would be dead or enslaved if it weren't for firearms, pure and simple.

I strongly believe that there are MORE people that have been killed and put into slavery because of firearms, than people who would be dead or enslaved without it. This is, I think, easily verifiable. Don't make me go into examples [img]smile.gif[/img]

Your WWII example is not valid either cause without firearms I don't think Germans would have invaded any countries.

Your Nitro example is also not valid for the same reason explained by Moiraine, Yorick and me. Nitro has been made to destroy rock. Gun has been made to kill. And you see, I care much more about a life than about a piece of rock.

It was nice to debate with you, but now I have to go back home.

See ya tomorrow guys [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-11-2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Masklinn ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

No no you still don't understand. Your point is not valid to me : everything can be a deadly weapon in this damn world. I can cut a throat with a piece of paper if I want, this is not the point at all. Guns have been MADE to kill. They have been created for that purpose. And they do it very good. Faster than piece of paper, faster than a car even ! One tiny click on the trigger and a life is taken away in less than a second. Responsible or not, who knows what can happen.

Swords and Axes were made to kill people as well. What is the diffrence between people owning a sword or a gun? You might say that guns can kill faster or easier. Well , in the hands of your average person the same could be said for an ax. It might even be easier to kill with an ax because you dont have to aim or reload it. Nacht brought up martial arts. I dont know about the rest of you , but I would rather face down someone with a gun that face down my instructor. With a gun there is a chance I might get killed, with my instructor it is a certainty. The point is guns arent the problem, people are. Chances are if you are following the gun laws you arent the type to go on a killing spree any time soon.

[ 02-11-2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: The Hunter of Jahanna ]

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by Moiraine: Nah, Nachtrafe, you don't seem to see the point Masklinn and Yorick were both raising. Which is : while you can kill with any number of items - a shovel, a needle, ... - only guns were specifically created to kill. Their purpose is to harm and kill - the purpose of a needle is to sew, of a shovel is to,well, shovel.

You beat me to it. Thanks Claude. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Fine Hugh...see my point about Nitro. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT: Ack!! Too many people to answer!! *HEAD FILLING>>>ABOUT TO EXPLODE>>>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH>>>*POP*

HEHE...Sorry...couldn't resist. I have to run folks, I'm off to have lunch with my loverly Cloudy, but I'll try to get back afterwards and respond. Although, I may not have time, *I'm* deviating from my purpose and need to get something *productive* done. [img]tongue.gif[/img] But I'll try.

Later
Nacht

[ 02-11-2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Nachtrafe ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

You don't need a semi automatic to shoot skeets. You can't shoot skeets with a colt45 or smith & wesson or an Uzi. You could shoot skeets with something that couldn't kill humans with the ease of many guns on the market today

Um, Yorick people can and do shoot skeet with pistols all the time. My fathers hunting club has a seperate trophy for pistol skeet shooting. Mostly they use long barrel revolvers, but they will all kill a person. Same thing goes for the "long guns" used for skeet shooting. The most common is a 12ga shotgun. That is the same gauge the police use, so I would guess that it wil kill people as well. Even the smallest shot gun,that being the 4-10, can easily kill a human because its shells are still larger than most handgun rounds..

[Larry_OHF]

The life of my own wife and daughter mean more to me than any other person's life, and they both depend on me for some type of safety. If I allowed a man to enter my home and harm them, then I have failed my family. If I tried to defend them, then I at least tried. The man is in the wrong for entering my private home with the intent to do harm. Now, my house is not spacious enough to swing a shovel at him. If I had one, I would be sweinging it at his head. Why? because my intention is to stop him from progressing. But...what if he is so much larger and stronger than I am that he can easily dodge or deflect the swing and continue to make aggrivated assault on us? Well, then I have failed, and will have to suffer my family at his descretion, then maybe he will move on to hurt my neighbor who is 73 years old. (Her house was broke into last month, but all the guy found was an angry Chow! Lol!) Anyway...my point is...no matter how big the guy is...I bet a gun would stop him from continuing to harm my family. I have to stop the man from succeeding in a crime. Right? What if I could do nothing to shoot him, because my shovel was out in the gargage? Should I ask him to "hold on a minute,,,I need to go get my shovel so we can fight like civil people"? It is either he kill me or I kill him. I am gonna decide that he should die. Afterall...he would not die if he had stayed outside my house and not woke me up.

[Moiraine]

Larry, several points :

- First, that guy you describe would be a thief, right ? Then his intent would be to STEAL not to HARM
- If he is a professional thief, then he will have some sort of good sense - sense enough to know that a robbery would cost him much much less than a kill ...
- IF he is a sensible kind of person, you can either stop him by harming him, or let him do the robbery and stay safe
- If he is not sensible, and he is armed, then he's got as much a chance to harm you as you have to harm him ...

But in any case, won't the danger be greater if he gets a weapon out BECAUSE he's seen yours ?

[Sir Taliesin]

Firearms are no different than any other weapon. Take a bow and arrow for instance. They are designed to kill, and probably through out all of history, they have killed more people than firearms! Both have the ablity to put food on your table (unless you happen to be a vegeterian). Both can supply hours of amusement and relaxation! The difference is that it takes a little longer to load a bow. But the effect will still be the same if you hit a person. Should be ban all bows and arrows?

BTW the main ingrediant of Dynomite is nitro. It has been and still is used for war. That is why Nobel started his little million dollar prizes. He was so upset that his little invention was being used for killing.

But again, why should I not be able to do something I enjoy , just because others don't like it, even though I use my weapons responsibly? Something that is legal to do, even in France!

BTW, I keep my firearms locked up at home in a security cabinet. I have one key and my wife has the other. I do not carry them around.

[Lanesra]

Originally posted by Charlie: Pardon my ignorance. What's "skeet"?

It's what posh people do on ice.

[Charlie]

So skeets are clay pigeons? Why paint em bright, if you can't hit em.....buy a bigger gun.

Cheers for the info'.