Ethics and Parents...Please Respond - Page 2

Ronn_Bman · 03-01-2002, 01:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:

A. becomes *extremely* irate when I see them together and I admonish him...yells that I can't choose his friends for him--that he'll be friends with whomever he chooses

I'm 36, my son is 13 1/2, and we haven't had this problem yet thank goodness, but it's coming and I know it.

Pretty much, A.'s right about the statement above. You can't choose his friends. You can try to limit his abilty to see those you object too, but I think you know that isn't going to work....short of locking him in the basement [img]smile.gif[/img] . In fact, it will encourage him to rebel against your choices. This doesn't mean you let him do anything he wants to either, but you have to find the fine line between showing your disapproval without forcing it down his throat. Easier said than done, huh?

I remember being that age all too well, and I remember that my parent's dislike for a certain girl encouraged me to sneak around and see her whenever I could. I was so busy liking her to spite my parents, that it took me quite a while to realize I really didn't like her that much.

We try to guide our kids in the right direction, but ultimately, it's life that teaches the lessons, and we can only watch in joy or horror. We do however get credit for our efforts when they grow up. Then when they have kids of their own, we get payback! My dad loves it! [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Epona · 03-01-2002, 01:50 PM

I agree with Ronn - if they know you hate them doing something, at that age they are in a power struggle with you (natural part of becoming independent) so will do it *just because* you don't like it, so that they can get one over on you.

It is easy to confuse feelings when you're a teenager - I went out with one bloke for 3 years from age 16, his father *hated* me (because my family lived in state housing, no other reason, he was a real snob), and banned his son from seeing me. I got a great deal of satisfaction from seeing this lad knowing that I had found a way to get one over on his father - it was only after the father relented and we were free to see each other whenever that we realised we didn't get along so well and split up. And we were both legally (although obviously not mentally!!) adults at that time too.

Scholarcs · 03-01-2002, 06:20 PM

Well here are my comments, from a 16 (minus a day) year old.

I feel that as a teenager, it is my right to choose who my friends are. If my parents decide they dont like my friends, then I simply wont meet them at my house. After a while my parents decide that it is much better to have us at home than where they know not.

But it is important to have a relationship of trust. If my parents didnt trust me, then they wouldnt let me out of the house. My parents trust me that my friends are *right* and we're not taking drugs, drinking excessively etc. Without the trust it creates a stressful problem for both teenagers and parents. With the trust, parents know that their children are doing the right thing.

In a child-parent relationship, I believe that trust is the most important thing.

03-01-2002, 06:45 PM

Hey, whats the worst that could happen? Cool down. Your son probally won't do anything dangerous.
The way you make it sound, this girl has done the dirty stuff [img]smile.gif[/img] and wants your baby to do the same. Well, whats the big deal? If you wishes any grandchildren, he must do it sometime, better to get it over with so he won't be as nervous when he finds the right girl. As long as they protect themselves, nothing dangeorus can happen.
As long as he keep away from drugs, it is ok. WIth drugs I ofcourse mean everything that you do not use; you smoke tobaco or drink alcohol? Then he should too (yes, even if you only does it at partys).

As I see it, if boys and girls learn to know each other early (in several ways), missunderstandings later on, when they are in serious relationships, might not be so many, and so severe.
I don't have the time or patience to dig up and translate that old book, but the swedish writer August Strindberg once wrote a book called Giftas (dunno the english name, someone may know?) where he is debating the relationship between men and women, and many other things.
I really recommend this book, even though many critics acuses it to be degrading to women, denying them their freedom ect. I have noticed no such things (though, it might be the case in Giftas II)

Neb · 03-01-2002, 06:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wedin:
You smoke tobaco or drink alcohol? Then he should too (yes, even if you only does it at partys).

I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it.

Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer.

03-01-2002, 07:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Neb:

I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it.

Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer.

Acctually, as a total-absteiner, I tried to make her feeling guilty drinking when she had a child [img]smile.gif[/img]

The point is, though, that us teens often consider us adult, and do not understand why we can't do all the things adults does.

Garnet FalconDance · 03-01-2002, 07:05 PM

Suffice it to say I do *NOT* agree with Wedin.

Yes, eventually he will have sex. His father did--his father had no male influence growing up and his mother (while a lovely lady now and divorced 5 times) was totally not in control of herself least of all her four children. Thus, A's father ended up being a real punk for a few years--and signing adoption papers for his firstborn son at *age 14*. *THAT* one is for you, Wedin. I have a 25 year old step son somewhere in the world.

Also, yes I drink a little as does his father. And his father smokes cigs (is in the process of quitting). Does that give a 14 year old the *right* to do so? NO. Does the fact that his father and I have an active sexual life together give him the *right* to also have an active sexual life? NO. His father and I are part of that rare breed who actually enjoy staying at home with our children, so we do not attend these 'parties' you allude to. And *drugs* are NOT tolerated in any form in this household!

She *has* 'done the dirty'. Does that give a 14 year old the *right* to sleep with her because she has experience he is lacking? NO.

I shall stop now as I can feel righteous indignation rising....

And for the record, I was one of those truly rare breeds that as a teen did *not* give in to peer pressure. I didn't drink, never have to this day done drugs, and didn't smoke. I also did not have indiscriminate (or any other) sex either because I felt pressured by a boy or because I thought it would be a good idea to get a little experience for 'when I met the right man'.

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]

Ronn_Bman · 03-01-2002, 07:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Neb:

I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it.

Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer.

I'm with you 100% on that Neb!

While some might thing it's ok to drink and smoke because their parents do, that logic is flawed. If the legal age for drinking is 21, then parents who are of age have the right to choose to do these things, while those under 21 do not. One day their kids will have the same choice, but not ntil they reach the proper age.

Parents also work, pay the rent, the utilities, buy groceries, and pay taxes. Any kids want some of that action?

[ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Neb · 03-01-2002, 07:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wedin:

Acctually, as a total-absteiner, I tried to make her feeling guilty drinking when she had a child [img]smile.gif[/img]

The point is, though, that us teens often consider us adult, and do not understand why we can't do all the things adults does.

Ummm.... I really fail to see why she should feel guilty at all about drinking because when she has a child.... She's allowed to have a bit of fun too....

And yes, teenagers often consider themselves adult and mature, sometimes rightfully, but usually not.

*\Conan/* · 03-01-2002, 07:14 PM

Wow...
Wedin that is intense to say the least.
Garnet, you want me to talk to him...put him on!

Agility, would you put a girl between you and your parents? I think not.
Now the following steps will not be broken;
1. Obey your parents!
2. Do you want to survive? Be street smart!!
3. No going past a certain lines before your married!
4. Repeat steps 1-4

Don't make your mom chain you up in the basement where you will be feed dry bread and water twice a week. A shower once a month will be generous. Pop-tarts every other day ...chocolate sugar topped ones(yuck!)! Finally, I will e-mail you every day with spam if I have to! Over and out.

03-01-2002, 01:40 PM	#11
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance: *A. becomes extremely* irate when I see them together and I admonish him...yells that I can't choose his friends for him--that he'll be friends with whomever he chooses** I'm 36, my son is 13 1/2, and we haven't had this problem yet thank goodness, but it's coming and I know it. Pretty much, A.'s right about the statement above. You can't choose his friends. You can try to limit his abilty to see those you object too, but I think you know that isn't going to work....short of locking him in the basement [img]smile.gif[/img] . In fact, it will encourage him to rebel against your choices. This doesn't mean you let him do anything he wants to either, but you have to find the fine line between showing your disapproval without forcing it down his throat. Easier said than done, huh? I remember being that age all too well, and I remember that my parent's dislike for a certain girl encouraged me to sneak around and see her whenever I could. I was so busy liking her to spite my parents, that it took me quite a while to realize I really didn't like her that much. We try to guide our kids in the right direction, but ultimately, it's life that teaches the lessons, and we can only watch in joy or horror. We do however get credit for our efforts when they grow up. Then when they have kids of their own, we get payback! My dad loves it! [img]smile.gif[/img] . __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-01-2002, 01:50 PM	#12
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	I agree with Ronn - if they know you hate them doing something, at that age they are in a power struggle with you (natural part of becoming independent) so will do it just because you don't like it, so that they can get one over on you. It is easy to confuse feelings when you're a teenager - I went out with one bloke for 3 years from age 16, his father hated me (because my family lived in state housing, no other reason, he was a real snob), and banned his son from seeing me. I got a great deal of satisfaction from seeing this lad knowing that I had found a way to get one over on his father - it was only after the father relented and we were free to see each other whenever that we realised we didn't get along so well and split up. And we were both legally (although obviously not mentally!!) adults at that time too. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wizardrealm.com/images/epona.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-01-2002, 06:20 PM	#13
Scholarcs Red Dragon Join Date: December 5, 2001 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Age: 38 Posts: 1,557	Well here are my comments, from a 16 (minus a day) year old. I feel that as a teenager, it is my right to choose who my friends are. If my parents decide they dont like my friends, then I simply wont meet them at my house. After a while my parents decide that it is much better to have us at home than where they know not. But it is important to have a relationship of trust. If my parents didnt trust me, then they wouldnt let me out of the house. My parents trust me that my friends are right and we're not taking drugs, drinking excessively etc. Without the trust it creates a stressful problem for both teenagers and parents. With the trust, parents know that their children are doing the right thing. In a child-parent relationship, I believe that trust is the most important thing. __________________ <br />\"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five\" - Groucho Marx<br />Member of the ORT Clan. <br />\"Some birds are not meant to be caged because their feathers are too bright\"<br />Ma bouche sera la bouche des malheurs qui n\'ont point de bouche, ma voix, la liberté de celles qui s\'affaissent au cachot du désespoir. - Aimé Césaire<br />La plus perdue de toutes les journées est celle où l\'on n\'a pas ri. - Sébastien Roch Nicolas

03-01-2002, 06:53 PM	#15
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	quote: Originally posted by Wedin: You smoke tobaco or drink alcohol? Then he should too (yes, even if you only does it at partys). I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it. Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer.

03-01-2002, 07:01 PM	#16
Wedin Guest Posts: n/a	quote: Originally posted by Neb: I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it. Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer. Acctually, as a total-absteiner, I tried to make her feeling guilty drinking when she had a child [img]smile.gif[/img] The point is, though, that us teens often consider us adult, and do not understand why we can't do all the things adults does.

03-01-2002, 06:45 PM	#14
Wedin Guest Posts: n/a	Hey, whats the worst that could happen? Cool down. Your son probally won't do anything dangerous. The way you make it sound, this girl has done the dirty stuff [img]smile.gif[/img] and wants your baby to do the same. Well, whats the big deal? If you wishes any grandchildren, he must do it sometime, better to get it over with so he won't be as nervous when he finds the right girl. As long as they protect themselves, nothing dangeorus can happen. As long as he keep away from drugs, it is ok. WIth drugs I ofcourse mean everything that you do not use; you smoke tobaco or drink alcohol? Then he should too (yes, even if you only does it at partys). As I see it, if boys and girls learn to know each other early (in several ways), missunderstandings later on, when they are in serious relationships, might not be so many, and so severe. I don't have the time or patience to dig up and translate that old book, but the swedish writer August Strindberg once wrote a book called Giftas (dunno the english name, someone may know?) where he is debating the relationship between men and women, and many other things. I really recommend this book, even though many critics acuses it to be degrading to women, denying them their freedom ect. I have noticed no such things (though, it might be the case in Giftas II)

03-01-2002, 07:05 PM	#17
Garnet FalconDance Mephistopheles Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: deep within the sylvan splendor.... Age: 60 Posts: 1,443	Suffice it to say I do NOT agree with Wedin. Yes, eventually he will have sex. His father did--his father had no male influence growing up and his mother (while a lovely lady now and divorced 5 times) was totally not in control of herself least of all her four children. Thus, A's father ended up being a real punk for a few years--and signing adoption papers for his firstborn son at age 14. THAT one is for you, Wedin. I have a 25 year old step son somewhere in the world. Also, yes I drink a little as does his father. And his father smokes cigs (is in the process of quitting). Does that give a 14 year old the right to do so? NO. Does the fact that his father and I have an active sexual life together give him the right to also have an active sexual life? NO. His father and I are part of that rare breed who actually enjoy staying at home with our children, so we do not attend these 'parties' you allude to. And drugs are NOT tolerated in any form in this household! She has 'done the dirty'. Does that give a 14 year old the right to sleep with her because she has experience he is lacking? NO. I shall stop now as I can feel righteous indignation rising.... And for the record, I was one of those truly rare breeds that as a teen did not give in to peer pressure. I didn't drink, never have to this day done drugs, and didn't smoke. I also did not have indiscriminate (or any other) sex either because I felt pressured by a boy or because I thought it would be a good idea to get a little experience for 'when I met the right man'. [ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Garnet FalconDance ]

03-01-2002, 07:07 PM	#18
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	quote: Originally posted by Neb: I'm going to have exercise some self-control here in order not to get angry, Noone "should" smoke tobacco or drink alcohol just because someone else does, noone SHOULD do it, alcohol might be nice at parties, but by no means SHOULD anyone do it. Tobacco? Noone should do that, period, ruins the lungs and increases the chance of lung cancer. I'm with you 100% on that Neb! While some might thing it's ok to drink and smoke because their parents do, that logic is flawed. If the legal age for drinking is 21, then parents who are of age have the right to choose to do these things, while those under 21 do not. One day their kids will have the same choice, but not ntil they reach the proper age. Parents also work, pay the rent, the utilities, buy groceries, and pay taxes. Any kids want some of that action? [ 03-01-2002: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ] __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

03-01-2002, 07:08 PM	#19
Neb Account deleted by Request Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: . Age: 38 Posts: 8,802	quote: Originally posted by Wedin: Acctually, as a total-absteiner, I tried to make her feeling guilty drinking when she had a child [img]smile.gif[/img] The point is, though, that us teens often consider us adult, and do not understand why we can't do all the things adults does. Ummm.... I really fail to see why she should feel guilty at all about drinking because when she has a child.... She's allowed to have a bit of fun too.... And yes, teenagers often consider themselves adult and mature, sometimes rightfully, but usually not.

03-01-2002, 07:14 PM	#20
\Conan/ Red Dragon Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 62 Posts: 1,512	Wow... Wedin that is intense to say the least. Garnet, you want me to talk to him...put him on! Agility, would you put a girl between you and your parents? I think not. Now the following steps will not be broken; 1. Obey your parents! 2. Do you want to survive? Be street smart!! 3. No going past a certain lines before your married! 4. Repeat steps 1-4 Don't make your mom chain you up in the basement where you will be feed dry bread and water twice a week. A shower once a month will be generous. Pop-tarts every other day ...chocolate sugar topped ones(yuck!)! Finally, I will e-mail you every day with spam if I have to! Over and out. __________________ \\Conan/
$\Conan/ is offline$

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