Hi guys! Misc. questions (possible spoilers)

[Dang]

Well, I have now completed the game with both my "good" party (using only classes I consider "good," a very subjective system, not stealing from or killing the citizens of the Gael Serran) and my "evil" party (thanks for the quest item, now DIE!), and am now trying a solo run with the "Avatar" (society of Ultima lovers who just can't let go. Sad.) and I have a few miscellaneous questions, some of which might contain spoilers (or the answers might).

1) All my characters are considered "Neutral" no matter what virtuous or dastardly things they do. Even becoming the host of Lord Cet doesn't change this. Is there anything that changes "Neutral" status, or is that a feature that wasn't actually implemented in W&W.

2) Who can't be killed? I have not been able to harm the ghost of D'soto, even using black-fired weapons. Ditto for the gutted version of Gezzerad Ra; I guess I have to settle for chucking his heart over the side of the platform I found it on. (Liqnne the Lizzord Ninja: "gaah! I didn't want to pick this up. I was trying to crush it in my Kung Fu grip." Zha Qurdas the Ghourk Vampire Ranger: "Let me have it. I'm hungry ... Whoops! That's a slippery one--look, there it goes.") And Kerah skankers off before I can kill her, or I just can't hurt her at all. Bummer! Am I missing anybody?

3) I read Missy Hissy adventures (Yay!) wherein Kerah is proven to be most treacherous, but reading through some other posts there seems to be a general idea that she is not all sweetness and light. Apart from probably sending Kol to his death, can anyone tell me what makes Kerah naughty?

4) Oh, and could someone tell that ditz that I can't give her holy water while she's hovering overhead?!?

5) What does the Book of Misfortune do, if anything? I had two of these at one time. You can't read them and can't invoke them. Maybe the misfortune is lugging these things around when you could have a perfectly good Ankh there?

I'm sure I'll think of some other questions, but this is it for now. Avatar needs to try to force the eight abilities of W&W to fit into the 8 Virtues scheme!

[bsftcs]

1) Sadly the consequences promised early in the game were never incoporated in the final version. The characters' actions have absolutely no implications.

2) Some monsters are not meant to be killed - especially those that play a role later on or who are needed to complete a task significant for the whole quest. The spirit of Xydusa cannot be killed either since she is needed to open the serpent door. Anephas and Kerah cannot be killed at the first encounter either since they come back later on.

3) Nothing makes Kerah naughty. That was only Bungleau's invention. And it was only that which made me portray her in a similar - though not so bad - version in my Stackman story.

4) You can easily give her the water while she is flying - you just have to give her the water while jumping. It takes some timing - but it is not that difficult.

5) Apparently there were originally plans for a spell by the name of misfortune - perhaps even another spellrealm. Unfortunately it was never included in the final version, but the book remains.

[ 06-28-2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: bsftcs ]

[Bungleau]

Originally posted by Dang: 1) All my characters are considered "Neutral" no matter what virtuous or dastardly things they do. Even becoming the host of Lord Cet doesn't change this. Is there anything that changes "Neutral" status, or is that a feature that wasn't actually implemented in W&W. Nothing changes it. Yet another good idea dropped on the editing room floor... 2) Who can't be killed? I have not been able to harm the ghost of D'soto, even using black-fired weapons. Ditto for the gutted version of Gezzerad Ra; I guess I have to settle for chucking his heart over the side of the platform I found it on. (Liqnne the Lizzord Ninja: "gaah! I didn't want to pick this up. I was trying to crush it in my Kung Fu grip." Zha Qurdas the Ghourk Vampire Ranger: "Let me have it. I'm hungry ... Whoops! That's a slippery one--look, there it goes.") And Kerah skankers off before I can kill her, or I just can't hurt her at all. Bummer! Am I missing anybody? Don't know if I've got a good answer for this. Kerah can't (even when you're attacking her), and neither can Kol. Anephas can be attacked with black-fired weapons, but I'm not sure he can be killed. Kerah intervenes in the end game. 3) I read Missy Hissy adventures (Yay!) wherein Kerah is proven to be most treacherous, but reading through some other posts there seems to be a general idea that she is not all sweetness and light. Apart from probably sending Kol to his death, can anyone tell me what makes Kerah naughty? I'm glad you enjoyed Missy's adventures [img]smile.gif[/img] Kerah's misbehaviour is, as bsftcs pointed out, my invention in the story. However, she does not appear to be as sweet and innocent as some might have you believe Telling multiple people it's their destiny to save the Gael Serran and raise her beloved Anephas... seems like she was hedging her bets, doesn't it, and using common folks for pawns in her game of chess... Of course, I do have a slightly biased opinion on it... 4) Oh, and could someone tell that ditz that I can't give her holy water while she's hovering overhead?!? The nerve of her... 5) What does the Book of Misfortune do, if anything? I had two of these at one time. You can't read them and can't invoke them. Maybe the misfortune is lugging these things around when you could have a perfectly good Ankh there? Nothing, unfortunately. I believe it's a leftover item, or a tribute to some other games, such as HOMM, where there's an artifact called an Ancient Fizbin of Misfortune, which negatively affects your party's abilities. It doesn't do anything here, unfortunately

Keep playing! Who knows... maybe you'll find the answers to these questions (and more [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

Originally posted by Bungleau: quote: Originally posted by Dang: 2) Who can't be killed? [snip] Anephas can be attacked with black-fired weapons, but I'm not sure he can be killed. Kerah intervenes in the end game.

[/QUOTE]Anephas can be killed, you've just got to be quick about it (pump yourself up on drugs (b-lust, h-might, &c) and hack away). He's worth about a third of a million, same as Cet.

[Dang]

"HOMM, where there's an artifact called an Ancient Fizbin of Misfortune"

I think I remember the Ancient Fizbin; ah, HOMM, how I miss thee (II & III)!

--OK, I thought I might be missing something with Kerah; because of the way text works (shooting up past what you can read in the text box, sometimes even when you've expanded the box), I tend to speed read for major points and thought I might have missed some subtle details.

OK, here's a couple more. Is it possible to kill Erasmedor when he's flying around the Shire? Extremely difficult, in any case, but is it even possible?

AND, am I supposed to hear speech for what the monsters and guild members are saying, or just for the narrator? I thought I remembered hearing the trolls when I was first playing, but that could have just been my overactive imagination.

[Dang]

Ok, since I'm still sort of in evil mode, I thought of some smart-alecky replies, for your amusement, I hope.

bsftcs said:

"1) Sadly the consequences promised early in the game were never incoporated in the final version. The characters' actions have absolutely no implications."

Not true! My evil party killed lots more, including some EXtremely Prestigeous individuals, and thus they were faced with tougher monsters. I'd not seen a Dumdee Oleoh or "????"ian Naga before.

"4) You can easily give her the water while she is flying - you just have to give her the water while jumping. It takes some timing - but it is not that difficult."

This was my EVIL party. I don't think we could be bother to hop around like toadies for THAT woman. We were going to leave her to her fate, except a certain door won't open until someone gets her Perrier.

By the way, are the Stackman Chronicles collected in one thread or do I just need to do some searching? And I would like to thank you, bsftcs, for your elegant solution to the Skull Castle Dungeon Bridge Puzzle, my absolutely most hated puzzle, up until I read your solution. (You didn't give it to me, you gave it to someone else some time ago, but I found it while looking for work arounds to that particular puzzle.)

Yet another 2 questions. What do folks think about the bard class? I didn't find it much fun; I had heard some people hate it, but others seemed to think it was a class that took some work to get right. The thing that did impress me was that the Bard can (potentially) use spells from lots of different books; on the other hand, so can a well-rounded spellcaster.

#2: If the Rogue school doesn't (as far as I can tell) teach 2nd weapon skill, why do they sell 2nd handed weapons? Seems like they don't do a Rogue or Bard much good.

[Bungleau]

Okay, lessee...

I've never tried icing Erathsmedor when he was flying. He tends to have a short attention span... breathe on you once or twice, and then fly away. You'd probably have to stay in the outdoors until you killed him, which could take forever (hey, come back here so I can hit you!)

As for speech, there's none in the towns, but most of the beasties will talk to you chit chit! Ya pays for pies! It can get somewhat boring after a while Drop yer weapons. Yer outnumbered!, but you can get used to it Me nicks and stones... If you're not hearing anything outside the towns, check your sound level settings, and then look into your drivers. You should be hearing something.

As for the implications, I almost always see dumdee oleohs in the pyramid area. The naga you refer to sounds familiar, but I haven't seen one in a long while. There truly is no consequence to your actions in the game, unfortunately...

Stackman's chronicles are not in one thread yet... we're looking at that. If you're into that kind of reading, be sure to search for Radek's stories about Tia and his adventures through the Gael Serran. There's interesting stuff in there as well...

I don't particularly care for bards, and perhaps I just need to play one through to completion. The musical instruments just don't seem to do it for me... at least, not as well as sword, spear, and staff do... [img]smile.gif[/img]

And as for the rogues, you know us netherworldly types... just because we don't use something doesn't mean we can't make a profit on it, does it? [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

[Dang]

Good points! You (as well as others) always make it a joy to travel in the GS, Bungleau. I'm having a great time with The Avatar. I'm not up to doing a story, but I think tomorrow I will post a rambling chronicle of his adventures and some of the funny things he has encountered on the way. For one: early in his career, while still a mere Warrior, the Avatar realized he needed some cash, and he discovered he couldn't use lockpicks, so he decided he would just, you know, -hock- one of H'thark's picks. Hey, H probably only needed one, and in any case, Avatar could by it back long before he reached the Serpent Temple.

Later, while scoping out an isolated windmill, the Avatar was attacked by a Lake Nymph. Her remains turned up lock picks. The Avatar searched his pack for the new picks, unable to find them, until he looked and saw he now had 3 H'thark's lockpicks! Uncanny!

[Radek]

1. I've seen a post that states that if you do something, your party becomes "evil". Search the forum. I've never been evil so that I don't know.
At any rate, your evilness has no consequences. Most likely, the good-neutral-evil orientation was planned but not implemented in the game.

2. Erathsmedor cannot be killed, harmed, or even Vanished while it is flying in the exterior. Anephas can be killed in the Cet's room when you side with Cet - but only with a black flame boosted Mavin Sword of Staff of Death. Note: Anephas is more than 800 000 XP, he is worth of much more XP than Cet
I've seen a post (it's somewhere on this forum) with instructions how to kill G'Ezzered Ra. You must get him out of his room because he is immune to anything there. I've never tried it.
Other "monsters" that cannot be killed or even harmed: Ghost of Nivius, all Oracles. Kerah and Kol are cheating: Kerah can lose HP but only to a certain level, then she becomes immune to anything even if you will be getting messages "Kerah was hit for nnn HP". Kol is cheating from the beginning. He is immune to anything even if you will be getting messages "Kol was hit for nnn HP".

3. Hmmm, Kerah? Evil? Why?

4. Bsftcs' solution seems to be the only solution of giving the Holy Water to the flying Kerah.

5. Book of Misfortune does nothing. Perhaps, there was a spell named Misfortune planned during the game development but it wasn't implemented.
Misfortune is a "level 1 spell" so that the book isn't worthy to pick.

6. Bard isn't my favorite class. I haven't detected any special feature of a bard worth of mentioning. But bard seems to be the only class that can gain Trickery trait. The trait is useful. Therefore:
1. Pretend to change role to a Bard.
2. Get the Scroll of Trickery. Give it to a mule in the inn and cancel Bard training.
3. Wait until you reach level 5 in Pawn Shop and until you get training rights there.
4. When you decide to change role to anything, become a Bard first (by means of the previously gained scroll), get the Trickery trait and then change role again to the decided role without leveling up as a Bard. This will block the Music skill so that it won't appear on your skill list.

7. It's a flaw in the game logic. Use Guild Hopping and join the Warriors Guild or Bushi Dojo. They teach 2nd Weapon skill.

[bsftcs]

Hey - we are some here who happen to like bards.

Originally plans were that the Stackman story should be posted in Bungleau's thread as well, but now we are not so sure anymore. Anyway I will be posting an index shortly. In any case one of following three things are going to happen: 1) The story is posted in Bungleau's thread. 2) The story will be posted in its own thread. 3) The index will be made into a sticky.

And yes, I think the bridge puzzle solution is very good too. But the full credits go to Radek. It is his solution.

In my game it is impossible to hurt Anephas in any possible way at the first encounter (both on the altar and in the monkey chute) - the same as is the case with Kol.

[ 06-29-2004, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: bsftcs ]