The murder of a murderer....

Originally posted by MagiK: State penetentiary in State College Pennsylvania (along route 322) is not too bad compared to some of the military barracks I have lived in. Cells are clean and not as cramped as some, good lighting, a tolerable amount of personal space, prisoners have access to cable TV (52" screen) computer work stations, a top of the line Library, they receive 3 meals a day and have both AC and heating when appropriate. They have new nautilus equipment, a golf driving range, several basketball courts, a football field and a dairy farm that prisoners may work on. Of course they have no control over their daily schedule, they get up when told, they go to bed when told ....how exactly is this different than being a kid living at home? or enlisted in the Navy? Ok when your a kid living at home your parents love you....but still I think there is little room for complaint by those prisoners.

One prison does not a penitentiary system make.
Many prisons all over America are cramped and crowded, with people living in terrible conditions, often locked in cells for more than 18 hours a day.
Besides why should prisoners be treated badly? What they receive in that prison sounds perfectly reasonable to me, since they still have human rights.
And before you go moaning about how “innocent people starve on the street” consider WHY these people starve on the street,
If you want lower taxes and more free market and capitalism, (therefore less of a welfare state), that is the price you will have to pay. For that will be an inevitable result of capitalism and the free market, under capitalism & free market at least you simply cannot escape people starving in the streets.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by Arnabas: So, let's save some money by dropping all the really hard-core criminals on an island somewhere where they have to fend for themselves, grow their own food, etc. It can be like Survivor:the Criminal edition.

What do you think Australia was?

[Alexander]

A fallacy that a lot of you are buying into is that it is more expensive to sustain a jailed criminal for the rest of his life than it is to execute him.

That is false - the executions end up costing a lot more, due to the equipment, appeals, and various other factors - I will back this up with proof if you wish.

[Arnabas]

I am soooo tempted to be snotty to you, Dramnek, but I am trying to accept that we simply have different views. I just don't see why you (seem to) think that criminals deserve better treatment than other members of society.

Originally posted by MagiK: Actually Dram, can't argue about killing children with you, because Im pretty much agaisnt killing kids for anything. But I watched a thing on tv the other day, about African Americans were saying that the death penalty was racist because there was something like a 25% disparity in who was on death row.....Another african American pointed out, that perhaps this was because young african american males were 25% more likely to prey on and ravage their neighbors.

Ask yourself: Why are African Americans more likely to commit crime?

Originally posted by MagiK: Perhaps there is a point there...I dont know....what I do know, is that I would rather put a person to death than have them sucking resources from the society for the rest of his/her life. I think if other countries are really worried about the horrible deal the US prisoners on death row are having, that maybe we can work out a deal..you take them and do what you want with them....as long as they can never return to the US.[/QB]

Are you happy with the vast amount of wastage that happens all over the western world? that's sucking resources from the society.
(BTW it cost's more money to sentence someone to death, than it does to keep them in prison for life, since most people spend about 17 years on death row, and you have to pay the lawyers for all the appeals etc)
Every day, 10000’s of paper cups & Styrofoam thingies are chucked at fast food joints all over the western world, what about all the recycling that does not happen? Besides if you don’t want to spend so much money on looking after prisoners, don’t lock so many of them up for petty little drugs offences, (dealing is bad though) just help them instead.

[Alexander]

Ok when your a kid living at home your parents love you....but still I think there is little room for complaint by those prisoners.

You're forgetting one thing - they can never leave. Freedom of movement is often overlooked when talking about prisons.

Oh, plus the fact that quite often prisoners are beaten up or raped by other prisoners - if jail is really comparable to a military barracks or life at home, then I'm surprised people like you aren't a bunch of felons.

Originally posted by Alexander: quote: Ok when your a kid living at home your parents love you....but still I think there is little room for complaint by those prisoners.

You're forgetting one thing - they can never leave. Freedom of movement is often overlooked when talking about prisons.

Oh, plus the fact that quite often prisoners are beaten up or raped by other prisoners - if jail is really comparable to a military barracks or life at home, then I'm surprised people like you aren't a bunch of felons.[/QUOTE]Not every one in that prison is there for life. And I have to remind you...in the Navy aboard ship and on Subs...you cant leave either. usually for up to 3 to 6 months at a time but still you can be restricted quite a bit.

I will admit the state run prisons can be quite dangerous, some of the federal facilities are quite nice in comparison, so the key here is..if you choose crime as your career path....do something federal

[ 05-30-2002, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Alexander]

Some of you liked my thoughts on using deathrow criminals for drug testing. I still find that viable.

Oh, yes, even better. Really, experimenting on people is morally pure, Amnesty International can go climb a rock, and any innocents caught in the crossfire probably deserved it anyway. Right?

[Alexander]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Alexander: quote: Ok when your a kid living at home your parents love you....but still I think there is little room for complaint by those prisoners.

You're forgetting one thing - they can never leave. Freedom of movement is often overlooked when talking about prisons.

Oh, plus the fact that quite often prisoners are beaten up or raped by other prisoners - if jail is really comparable to a military barracks or life at home, then I'm surprised people like you aren't a bunch of felons.[/QUOTE]Not every one in that prison is there for life. And I have to remind you...in the Navy aboard ship and on Subs...you cant leave either. usually for up to 3 to 6 months at a time but still you can be restricted quite a bit.[/QUOTE]That's nice, but you're not likely to be beaten or raped on an aircraft carrier.

Why don't you actually go spend a few days in a prison and then you can tell us about the blissful paradise it is.

[Arnabas]

I might have to leave this thread for a while... It is so frustrating to me that people care more about the rights of criminals than the people they rape, torture and murder.
"Mr. Smith, you have killed 20 people. This court sentences you to a long hug to raise your self esteem, because it is our own fault that you became homicidal. The victims and their families should be ashamed of what they did to you..."
Yes, in a perfect society, we could rehabilitate everyone and there would be no need for capital punishment. But are we living in a perfect society?

[ 05-30-2002, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Arnabas ]