06-06-2008, 12:57 PM | #51 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: July 16, 2003
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
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It is exactly this risk that Yorick discussed in his argument. Cotton candy might seem a far more innocent example, but the bottom line is still that we protect the child against a risk (rotting teeth at a later age). I'm one of those people whose parents never really were there for me. I know how much I miss discipline and guidance in my life. I have made a lot of bad choices that I could have been protected from, and I wish I had. I have experienced fully that puberty and youth makes for terrible decision making, even if I was fully supporting it with all sorts of thought out arguments, even if I was convinced that was the best for me. I still cannot say that I have the best for me in mind at all times. That said, I view this case in the same way: the child has no full recognition of what's going on, and there still may be hope this viewpoint of not feeling in the right body goes away somehow. Even if we accept there is nothing inherently wrong about sex-change (not that I agree with that) we still have to accept the enormous risks involved. If who knows what might happen, is it such a bad decision to choose to see if there is a non-physical solution? I for one would find it a sad day indeed if that were the general opinion.
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06-06-2008, 02:01 PM | #52 |
40th Level Warrior
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
I disagree that the imbalance is not innate, but you and I are on the same page.
The very nature of the relationship means that there is an imbalance. The way that imbalance shows up is something else, undoubtedly, and may even be in a positive manner. But I offer that there is likely no way that a 12-year-old and a 30-year-old can communicate as equals, assuming that both are developmentally normal. The risk is in the imbalance being abused. That's part of what society legislates against. My wife is a social worker, and 'round these parts, she is legally obligated to report any suspected child abuse. If a child says they're being beat, she *has* to report it. Me, I can look at the child, ask more questions, and decide if I think it ought to be reported. Not her. Parents are obligated to protect their children until they can survive themselves. At 12, I find it hard to believe that the typical child has the perspective, viewpoint, and experience to make the call about undergoing (or preparing to undergo) a sex change. And to Illumina's point, a good friend of mine is indeed transgender. His change took place when he was in his early thirties.... nearly three times the age of this girl. One of the things that happens, I believe, and to support JRKasperov's point, is that as you grow older, you look back at things that you've done and see how life would be different if you'd done them differently. There are things that I really wish I hadn't done when I was growing up (and as I continue to grow up ), but at the same time, I wouldn't have the same perspective and life now if I *hadn't* done those things.
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06-06-2008, 02:23 PM | #53 |
Apophis
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
I don't want the question to be misunderstood- I was wondering what page everyone else was on to gain some insight.
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06-06-2008, 04:30 PM | #54 |
40th Level Warrior
Join Date: October 29, 2001
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
No worries, Illumina. I guess I should have broken that out after all.
I was just trying to respond separately that I had some close-hand experience with a transgendered friend, and I was *NOT* trying to imply that because of that, I am somehow more knowledgeable or authoritative about it. I have not had a heart-to-heart with my friend about his choice, largely because it's his choice, and in spite of (or perhaps because of) our years of friendship, it's not my place to pry into what he's decided, gone through, or experienced. And it's not relevant, either. He's my friend, no matter what physical gender he has now or had then. End of story.
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06-06-2008, 05:03 PM | #55 | |
Iron Throne Cult
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
Quote:
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06-07-2008, 04:20 AM | #56 |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
The "cotton candy" was not a straw man, but an example of the principle I was defending.
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06-07-2008, 04:28 AM | #57 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
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Until you debate the facts presented instead of ignoring half of the story, we have nothing more to discuss. Last edited by Yorick; 06-07-2008 at 04:31 AM. |
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06-07-2008, 04:32 AM | #58 |
Very Mad Bird
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
Yes I do actually.
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06-07-2008, 02:54 PM | #59 | |
Ironworks Moderator
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
Quote:
By the way, while doing some searches on medical and mental-related websites, I found more than one instance that warns of problems not going away for some people who had sex changes, they just developed different types of problems later on that were just as heavy of a burdon. To bring back one of Yorick's points: it is factual and proved from child psychology that children cannot understand nor make life-long consequencial decisions on their own. A preteen has barely grown out of the mentality of the world revolving around him or her and their search for independency has barely begun...but many mistakes will be made along the way...some of which are irreversable (unfortunately).
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06-07-2008, 06:02 PM | #60 |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
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Re: This beggars belief - sex change for 12 Y.O.
A sobering thought indeed Larry.
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