5 to dawarfs, 3 to elves, 9 to humans, eh? Where did they go?

[Davros]

Appendix B - never checked there - when I saw that info first posted I suspected it would a likely succession, just couldn't pick where you got it from.

[Hayashi]

A small nit-pick: there were 7, not 5, rings for the dwarven kings.

One reason why Sauron was so eagerly seeking the One Ring is that he transferred quite a lot of his power into it when it was made, so that it could in turn rule over the other rings. So I suppose finding it whould have made his powers complete.

OK, I'll go back to lurking now.

[Chris77Se]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Larry_OHF:
Wow!
I really enjoyed your explantion!
Is that what Gandalf yelled at the big demon when he was on the bridge? That he was the owner of the ring of Fire, thus proving his domination over the thing?<hr></blockquote>

AFAIK Gandalf gets the ring after his returning as Gandalf the White. In the book it is said, that he fought several days with the Balrog and finally defeated it then in the depth. Then he ascendended Durins stair naked and was picked up by the King of the Eagles.
BTW, the sorcerors like Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, aswell as Sauron and the Balrog are all a kind of "superior beeings (Maia)" from the west. Sauron was the servant of Melkor in the first age and the Balrogs were also created by Melkor.
One of this Maia is in fact an anchestor in one of the family lines (IIRC Aragorn and elrond also have some Maia-blood)

[Tancred]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Chris77Se:


AFAIK Gandalf gets the ring after his returning as Gandalf the White. In the book it is said, that he fought several days with the Balrog and finally defeated it then in the depth. Then he ascendended Durins stair naked and was picked up by the King of the Eagles.
BTW, the sorcerors like Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, aswell as Sauron and the Balrog are all a kind of "superior beeings (Maia)" from the west. Sauron was the servant of Melkor in the first age and the Balrogs were also created by Melkor.
One of this Maia is in fact an anchestor in one of the family lines (IIRC Aragorn and elrond also have some Maia-blood)<hr></blockquote>

IIRC, Gandalf is given his ring by Cirdan upon landing at the Havens with the other four Wizards at the beginning of the Third Age. As for Aragorn and Elrond, yes - they can both trace their descent from the man Beren and Luthien; Luthien being the daughter of the Elf-King Thingol and Melian, a Valar(God). Bizarrely enough, Elrond's brother Elros - who forsake the elvish part of his heritage and became mortal, if long-lived - is in fact Aragorn's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-grandfather. Oh yes.

[Hayashi]

9 rings - Nazgul
7 rings - destroyed or with Sauron (?)
3 rings - Elrond & Galadriel. Don't know who has the 3rd one.
One Ring (aka Precious) - Frodo Baggins, hanging on a chain around his neck.

Just read FOTR last night - the part where the company are in Lothlorien. Now they are about to depart and paddle down the Anduin.

The book also mentions Lorien. Where is it? In the West (Elves' ancestral home?)

[Sir Degrader]

jobNine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will

They are not held by themeselves, because they are bound to the rings not to Sauron (otherwise Elrond and Gandalf would be evil), otherwise they would not be servants of Sauron, Sauron is the one who holds them otherwise they would simply run away and go get drunk and all that human sort of fun.... which wouldn't be very Tolkienish would it?

Otherwise exellent!

[Chris77Se]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Hayashi:
9 rings - Nazgul
7 rings - destroyed or with Sauron (?)
3 rings - Elrond & Galadriel. Don't know who has the 3rd one.
One Ring (aka Precious) - Frodo Baggins, hanging on a chain around his neck.

Just read FOTR last night - the part where the company are in Lothlorien. Now they are about to depart and paddle down the Anduin.

The book also mentions Lorien. Where is it? In the West (Elves' ancestral home?)<hr></blockquote>

Lorien is the same as Lothlorien, AFAIK.

The ancestral home of the Elves is Middle Earth. But when they awakened, the Valar tried to bring them to their land. So there are 3 kinds of elves: The Noldor (High Elves), which have seen the light of the trees but returned to Middle Earth during the first Age, the Sindar (Grey Elves), which saw the lights from far (or something like that, i cannor remember exactly) and the elves who never saw the light but choose to stay on Middle Earth.

[Tancred]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Sir Degrader:
jobNine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will

They are not held by themeselves, because they are bound to the rings not to Sauron (otherwise Elrond and Gandalf would be evil), otherwise they would not be servants of Sauron, Sauron is the one who holds them otherwise they would simply run away and go get drunk and all that human sort of fun.... which wouldn't be very Tolkienish would it?

Otherwise exellent!<hr></blockquote>

"The Nine the Nazgul keep. The Seven are taken or destroyed. The Three we know of." - Gandalf

It is *through* the rings that Sauron controls the Ringwraiths, and they still wear them. That was Sauron's masterplan in the beginning; all who wore Rings of Power would become his slaves. He would have got the Dwarf Lords too, if they hadn't been so stubborn; and the Elves, if they hadn't been too clever for him.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tancred:
The three Elven-Rings were originally held by Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan (Lord of the Grey Havens, a western outpost of Elves beond the Shire); however, Cirdan's ring was given to Gandalf, Cirdan admitting that 'you'll need it more than I will'. Not that Gandalf ever wears it - that would reveal him to Sauron fully - but as Gandalf appears to have some affinity for fire in the book, and the ring he keeps is Narya - Ring of Fire - perhaps he gains something from it passively, just as Galadriel and Elrond do.
The seven Dwarf-Rings were lost; four of them were destroyed by dragonfire, as the Dwarf Lords tried to battle the Dragons that sought to take the dwarf gold hoards. Three of them Sauron has found, and he keeps them (one he took from Thorin's grandfather Thror, if any of you know 'The Hobbit').
The Nine Rings of Men are still held by the Ringwraiths. By each one are they kept slaves to Sauron's will.

As to why Sauron did not turn invisible... well, the Ring 'shifts' a person into the spirit realm, essentially. Hence why Elves appear to almost shine, Frodo can see the Ringwraiths as they truly are, and the real world seems shadowy. Sauron, being in essence a demigod, is a powerful spirit, perhaps his physical and spiritual forms are one and the same?

The One Ring's powers... who knows? Domination and control, the power to conquer - mainly. Had Aragorn taken the ring, for example, no doubt he would have raised the armies of Gondor and Rohan, and the surrounding realms to boot, and sought to invade Mordor to fight for mastership of Middle-Earth - only to become like a second Dark Lord in the Process. Who knows? Much of Sauron was in it, so eventually the Ring's main function is to turn whoever uses it into another Sauron... Frodo, Bilbo - even Gollum - were able to resist for so long because, as hobbits or hobbitlike folk, they did not dream of conquest, and because they had little or no strength of their own. The Ring is mentioned as 'giving power according to the measure of its' possessor'. This is, naturally, why Gandalf (and Galadriel)refused to take it, and why the possibility of Saruman gaining it would be terrible - as Wizards, the power they would gain would easily match Sauron's.<hr></blockquote>

Ok I have some stickiing points here...First, I guess I should address the thing about invisibility due to wearing the ring. All the great rings can confer invisibility or so what I read seemed to indicate, what determines if you automaticly turn invisible is your personal power. If your will is great enough you master the ring and the RING will be invisible (Gandalf always wears Narya in the time period of the books) Gandalf wearing Narya is what allows him to best the Balrog, the ring he keeps invisible as do Elrond and Galadriel you will only see the ring if A. you are one of the elder types and have the power or B. If they reveal it to you which is what Galadriel did with Frodo.


Now wearing Narya does not reveal him to Sauron because...and its a big BECAUSE ...because Sauron does not have the One ring. With the ring he would control all the other "Great" rings and would know Gandalfs whereabouts and indeed even his very thoughts.

Anyhooo I researched all this something like 20 years ago for a graduation paper I wrote [img]smile.gif[/img] I dont remember the sources but I was sure about the Ring and the Invisibility thing, Remember Tom Bombadil wore the ONE ring and DID not turn invisible. He had mastery over his own will that the ring could not break so the ring did as he bade it to. And in the books Frodo did not see Galadriels ring untill she revealed it.


Well anyhooo hope that is interesting [img]smile.gif[/img]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Chris77Se:


AFAIK Gandalf gets the ring after his returning as Gandalf the White. In the book it is said, that he fought several days with the Balrog and finally defeated it then in the depth. Then he ascendended Durins stair naked and was picked up by the King of the Eagles.
BTW, the sorcerors like Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, aswell as Sauron and the Balrog are all a kind of "superior beeings (Maia)" from the west. Sauron was the servant of Melkor in the first age and the Balrogs were also created by Melkor.
One of this Maia is in fact an anchestor in one of the family lines (IIRC Aragorn and elrond also have some Maia-blood)<hr></blockquote>

I was pretty sure that Sauron was Morgoths servent...or is Morgoth and Melkor the same dude? I always liked the name Morgoth..totaly badass name for a major badass dude [img]smile.gif[/img]