Was the Rumble in the Jungle a fraud?

[Sir Degrader]

Seeing as how Ali's trainer loosened the ropes, and Ali's rope-a-dope strategy relied on them being loosened, isn't the fight a sham?

[Cerek]

Not really. George Foreman didn't have to go along with the "Rope-A-Dope". He could have stayed in the middle of the ring and waited for Ali to get off the ropes. The problem is that it is usually a big advantage for a boxer to get his opponent "on the ropes". That limits their ability to dodge or escape the punches you're throwing.

Watch the fight sometime. Yeah, Ali is leaning WAY back on the ropes, but he also has his upper body and face completely covered with his arms. Foreman could have attacked the body and pounded him in the ribs, but George was a brawler who always went for the knockout. It isn't the fault of Ali OR his trainer that Foreman just stood there and pounded on Ali's forearms. All that did was use up Foreman's energy without scoring him any significant points. A boxer gets credit for blocking his opponents punches. And Foreman just stood there and beat on the back of Ali's forearms.

It was a brilliantly simple strategy devised by Ali. Maybe the loosened ropes helped a bit, but Foreman is still at fault for falling victim to the strategy. Ali announced BEFORE the fight that he was going to use this strategy, and George didn't make ANY attempts to adapt his boxing style to accomodate it.

Besides, Ali STILL won the fight by a knockout. It wasn't like the fight was won on a decision by the judges. Foreman was stupid enough to come straight ahead and beat on Ali's arms for several rounds (which didn't do him ANY good on the judge's scorecards) and wasted all of his energy on barrages that had NO EFFECT on his opponents.

When he ran out of gas, Ali knocked him on his ass.

[Marathon]

There are always negotiations before a fight - when Leonard fought Hagler he held out for a larger ring. The types of gloves worn was a big topic for the recent Morales - Pacquiao fight. Like Cerek said, Ali just outmanuevered Foreman before the fight had even started.

If you want a scam, check out Ali's rematch with Sonny Liston. Phantom punch or not? Liston paid to take a dive or just not into the fight? He was heavily tied to the mob and later died of an overdose (or was he killed?).

[Sir Degrader]

Ah yes, the phantom punch.
Cerek- I believe you are mistaken. Foreman shot at the body, not at the forearms of Ali, letting Ali, leaning back on loosened ropes have an easier time of taking the punches and throwing counters.

Marathon- Wasn't Foreman unawares of the loosened ropes, as Dundee did it prior to the fight and after negotiations?

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: Ah yes, the phantom punch. Cerek- I believe you are mistaken. Foreman shot at the body, not at the forearms of Ali, letting Ali, leaning back on loosened ropes have an easier time of taking the punches and throwing counters. Marathon- Wasn't Foreman unawares of the loosened ropes, as Dundee did it prior to the fight and after negotiations?

You're partially right, Sir Degrader. I just happened to catch a re-cast of the fight on ESPN Classic this afternoon. It only showed the 1st, 4th, 5th and 8th round, but those were the main highlights of the fight.

In Round 1, Ali charged straight across the ring at Foreman from the opening bell. He didn't use the "Rope-A-Dope" a single time. He did end up on the ropes a couple of times, but he didn't try to lay back and stay there. He continuously took the fight to Foreman and managed to stagger him with a couple of quick combinations about 2 minutes into the round. Even in the rounds when Ali DID use the "Rope-A-Dope", he still managed to go on the attack and sting Foreman every time. Foreman's face was puffy and bleeding by the 5th round for the combo's Ali kept hitting him with. He only used the "Rope-A-Dope" from about the 4th round on. He did this to conserve his strength while Foreman wasted his.

You're right that Foreman threw punches to the body and head of Ali while he was on the ropes, but Ali covered up so good, that none of the punches landed or did any damage. They were just roundhouse haymakers that never really connected. George did try to throw jabs through Ali's defenses, but Ali kept swatting them to the side and moving his head, so they never connected. All the while, Foreman was getting more and more tired.

Finally, in the 8th round, Ali realized that Foreman was out of gas, and he went on the attack with a vengence. After that, it was all over and Ali knocked Foreman to the ground with a solid right hook over the top that left George glassy-eyed.

[Sir Degrader]

Much as I disliked the whole loosed rope thing (and Ali's personality in general), you are correct in that Ali is a phenomenal boxer. His strategy of counter puching was excellent, and his reaction times were simply amazing.

[johnny]

You sure love boxing don't ya dude ?

[Sir Degrader]

Not as much as I should.

[Q'alooaith]

Convention on scoring is three concecutive hits to an area of the head, and the front of the body (the sides/back don't count)

Every three hits is one point.

Any outside interference with the ring ect is grounds for disqualification.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Q'alooaith: Convention on scoring is three concecutive hits to an area of the head, and the front of the body (the sides/back don't count) Every three hits is one point. Any outside interference with the ring ect is grounds for disqualification.

Nice theory...here's another one..... money wins...always.