altruism doesn't exist

[spydar]

I'm just gonna warn all of you now: I am a paranoid pessimist.

Here's why I think that altruism (the act of doing something beneficial for another without recieving anything in return) doesn't exist (atleast among humans, with animals it's still up in the air until people manage to agree whether or not animals experience the same emotions as humans, and why the hell wouldn't they? but I digress).
Nobody does something without getting something else in return, even if it's the warm fuzzies that Hallmark is always blathering about. You do something beneficial for another you're going to feel nice about it which IS getting something in return. The only way you wouldn't is if you didn't realize you were doing it, but then altruism has to be a conscious act so that scenario is out of the picture. So, therefore thus (and I realize those two words basically mean the same thing), altruism among humans doesn't exist.

Which fits nicely into my little philosophy:
Atruism doesn't exist
Karma is bull-crap
The universe is spitfull

but in my defence I am a sleep-deprived, caffeine addicted, starving university student who has recently become dis-enchanted with the world and the direction it's headed.
Can't say I didn't warn you.

[/)eathKiller]

I gave my game system to my cousins so they could abuse it. I hated giving it away, I receved nothing in return but annoying calls about how much they loved it. I gained nothing from the act that benefitted me, hence that was altruism, and my life this entire week has been run by nothing BUT Karma...

[Bungleau]

Originally posted by spydar: I'm just gonna warn all of you now: I am a paranoid pessimist. No problem... I like a good discussion with a firm point of view [img]smile.gif[/img] Here's why I think that altruism (the act of doing something beneficial for another without recieving anything in return) doesn't exist (atleast among humans, with animals it's still up in the air until people manage to agree whether or not animals experience the same emotions as humans, and why the hell wouldn't they? but I digress). Nail number one in the coffin is here... but I'll wait... Nobody does something without getting something else in return, even if it's the warm fuzzies that Hallmark is always blathering about. You do something beneficial for another you're going to feel nice about it which IS getting something in return. The only way you wouldn't is if you didn't realize you were doing it, but then altruism has to be a conscious act so that scenario is out of the picture. So, therefore thus (and I realize those two words basically mean the same thing), altruism among humans doesn't exist. Ahhh... but that's not altruism. Altruism, by dictionary definition, is "Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness" (per dictionary.com). It is not "doing something without getting something in return"; it is doing something for the betterment of the other party. A second definition is "Zoology. Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species. " There is no indication of self-awareness in the mix, nor of desires to do things without reward. It is more of "doing for another because you care for that other". Which fits nicely into my little philosophy: Atruism doesn't exist Karma is bull-crap The universe is spitfull First point is only valid by your new definition of altruism. Second... the concept of karma may, IMHO, have its origins in a deep-seated desire to see justice get done. Not sure on your third point... don't know if I have the cultural background on spitfull. Unless you mean spiteful, in which case I probably have an idea rambling around here. but in my defence I am a sleep-deprived, caffeine addicted, starving university student who has recently become dis-enchanted with the world and the direction it's headed. Now there's a LOT in there that I can relate to... Can't say I didn't warn you. Thanks for the heads-up and the viewpoint

[Belle]

Originally posted by spydar: but in my defence I am a sleep-deprived, caffeine addicted, starving university student who has recently become dis-enchanted with the world and the direction it's headed.

That is a normal response to university. Trust me, it happens to everyone. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by spydar: Nobody does something without getting something else in return, even if it's the warm fuzzies that Hallmark is always blathering about. Which fits nicely into my little philosophy: Atruism doesn't exist

Have you seen into the mind and motivation of every human alive? Until you do, you cannot make such a statement.

[khazadman]

Sounds like you need to lay off the caffiene then. Speaking of which, I need another shot of coffee.

[Sigmar]

Originally posted by spydar: I'm just gonna warn all of you now: I am a paranoid pessimist.

Welcome to my world

I disagree with your beliefs as altruism is present in many people that I know, and karma is what makes the world go round

[Stratos]

Well one can always twist and turn a word but to some degree you´re correct; if I help someone he or she is more likely to help me in the future so it isn´t completely selfless. As for the animal kingdom many animals help their buddies and their family when they´re in need of help. Much of the animals reality is about survival and to spread their genes. Spreading your own genes is the best but if your siblings, who have a similar genome, get to spread theirs it´s the second best and thus helping them to survive might benefit perhaps not alway the individual personally but still their family. And this is only the biological side.
Helping poor people in your society might decrease crime and thus the risk of crime happening to you decreases. So yes you do gain by helping people sometimes even if it still just the feeling that you have done something good. What comes around goes around, as they say.

No altruism huh? I'll tell that to every serviceman (or woman) who sacrificed his/her life so that others may live.

Just my opinion but I believe I have seen very many acts of altruism in my life......I don't define "knowing you did the right thing" as "getting something in return"...that is more akin to "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"...a universal truth not a reward.

Edit: I in no way ment to leave out Firmen, police and even regular people who sacrifice their own well being for the betterment or benefit of others.

Edit the second: I think only a machine would be able to carry out an action with no thoughts or feelings about it... and only a machine would be capable of Spydars definition of altruism.

[ 05-14-2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

OMG! I forgot the biggest source of altruism on the planet.....Every Parent who Loves their Child and raises them.

[img]graemlins/doh.gif[/img]

[ 05-14-2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]