Why would you have a Bard as the Lead Character?

[Mongoose]

Ok, I've been playing AD&D roleplaying games for some time now and still don't understand how to play a bard such that they are a real asset to the party. Can anyone help me out? I am thinking it might add some challenge tothe game at a new level for me but so far I can't get the strategy right to make it worth playing (or in my case dying quickly and often).

Chris

[Bozos of Bones]

Untill the Sorcerors came from the west, Bard was for me the best party leader. He has keen intelligence and high charisma. He's even more effective in Icewind Dale 2 as a partyleader because of the talking skills. It's a though fight between Bard and Sorcerer in IWD2 for the party leader position.

[pritchke]

In IWD with HoW Bards are awsome, high charisma, good songs, fairly decent spell memorization, In HoW there is also some extra experiance you can get with a Bard in your party (I think). Here are the songs:

- The Ballad of Three Heroes: Bards start the game with this song. When played all party members gain +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 saving throws.

- The Tale of Curran Strongheart: 3rd level. When played, any fear effect on your party are removed and they gain an immunity to fear effects.

- Tymora's Melody: 5th level. When played, Tymora's Melody gives the bards' allies +1 luck, +3 saving throws, and +10% to their lore skill and thief skills.

- The Song of Kaudies: 7th level. When played, all party members gain a 50% chance to shrug off sound based attacks (spells such as Silence, Shout, Great Shout).

- The Siren's Yearning: 9th level. When played, enemies must save vs. spell or be enthralled, unable to take action unless 1 turn passes or they take damage.

- War Chant of Sith: 11th level. When played, all party members gain -2 bonus to AC, +10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing, and missile attacks, and they regenerate 2 hit points every round.

After you reach level 11 you will be singing the War Chant at least 90% of the time, if you have a cleric or druid you don't have to waste spell slots on healing spells. A Bard's purpose is not to fight but to boost moral among his troops. A Bard is one of the best classes in this game, and some would say the best. They are best used with several fighting class units.

If your playing solo I would not use a bard as a bard is meant to be a hugh support unit for other party members. Soloing a bard or any other single class in IWD would be just a little insane, a bard more so due to the fact that his songs are his strength, and you can't fight and sing at the same time.



[ 10-17-2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[NobleNick]

Chris,

There are several recent posts about this, including a few by me. Do a search on "bard" for posts in the last 3 weeks and you should get plenty of info.

As a short recap of these other posts: Don't judge the Bard in IWD/HoW by other recent D&D games, even IWD (without HoW). The Bard gains a whole lot of power if (and only if) HoW is installed.

It is a little slow going at the start. To highly accelerate your Bard's usefulness, save your pennies and buy her the "Bardic Horn of Valhala," available for purchase in Kuldahar. IMHO it is the single most powerful item you can buy in IWD; and only a Bard can use it. To give you an idea of its power (minor Dragon's Eye spoiler coming...)
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My Bard called in a Berserker party at the entrance to DE1. You can't directly control your berserkers; but, by luring lizards to within sight of the berserkers, I used ONE berserker party, backed by my guys, to clear virtually the entire level (everything except the spider alcove and the snake king's room). It was awesome to watch; because I was lucky enough to draw (IIRC) 5 berserkers; and they each get in so many hits in per round, that you roll a natural 20 almost every round. And the hits are so hard, that it looked like a waring blender doing up a recipe of gravel and tomatoes: Between my party and the berserkers, there was a power shake about twice per round; and almost every round the power shake was accompanied by lizard parts bouncing off the ceiling and sticking to the walls.

In addition to this, the Bard's magic skills, though not stellar, are not negligible either: she can be a real help with a few skull traps, fireballs, magic arrows, and Agan. Scorchers. Also her lore abilities are unrivaled; and in the mid to late game she will obviate the need for your Mage to memorize "Identify" spells.

BUT... I haven't told you the best part: The songs! She gets lots of useful songs; but when your Bard reaches level 11, she picks up "War Chant of the Sith".... and her crossbow slinging days are over! If you have a Fighter-heavy party (like, say, a Paladin, Fighter/Druid, Fighter/Cleric, and a Cleric/Ranger) then the Bard turns them into an exceptionally potent force: everyone gets +2 bonuses to armor class AND to THAC0, AND +2 HPs healing every round; and your melee-types can put this to very good use. Think of it: This is the equivalent of giving a +2 bonus to your THAC0 AND simultaneously giving the enemy a 2 point penalty to theirs! That is a 4 point tilt in your favor!! For really tough opponents, couple this up with a Prayer or Recitation (or both!) and the enemy might just as well fall on their swords, for all the good those weapons will do them....

Oh, and the healing doesn't stop after the battle is over; so you can completely heal up your party in a few minutes after an encounter, instead of using up heal spells or sleeping. This frees up some cleric slots for more protection spells or whatever else you want your priest to do.

If you are planning on doing the add-ons (HoW and TotLM), let me give you a hint: The Bard has several other songs that will make you very, VERY glad you brought her along (or very sad that you didn't) when you get to HoW and, ESPECIALLY, TotLM.

The Bard, with HoW installed: Almost indispensible. That's why I say:

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

[Mongoose]

I think I'll have to give this Bard thing a try! The impact on the party, especially at the intermediate levels sounds great. I should have known the bard was a bigger asset in HOW because of the number of bard items I was finding as treasure. That was one of the things that made me ask this question in the 1st place.

In battles do you end up protecting the bard then just like you might a lower level mage? I'm currently going through HOW with a cleric and a fighter/mage/thief. This has made a number of the battles really tough but I like the strategy part and trying to win them the 1st time through without reloading, although I will say I've gon in and out the door more times then ever using this small combo.

Thanks, Chris

[Sonic]

Hey noblenick they get powerful whit the right items in iwd (Even if you dount got HoW).so dount say bards dount get powerful in iwd : Like you said Horn of valhala and more.

[RoSs_bg2_rox]

theres plenty more than just the horn of valhalla

[motub]

And you know, just because someone is leader in peacetime doesn't mean they have to lead in battle... It sounds silly, but I never thought of this for a looooong time.

Just drag the tank to the front before entering a cave or whatever (unless your bard is also the party scout). Or stop the party well short of a "talking encounter" if possible, and send the bard alone forward to chat, then run him/her like blazes to the back of the party when the fight starts (if s/he hasn't managed to prevent it), and let the rest of the party do whatever they do to slow/stop/kill enemies as they're chasing the bard into what is hopefully a big ol' kill zone. One of the more neato features of bards is that because they're not the strongest party members, using one as a leader/distractor/decoy enables you to position your heavy hitters/spell-casters to best effect. At the very beginning of a battle, no one actually needs the bard's support functions, so s/he has a bit of time to help set the enemy up before getting into his/her normal position to shoot/cast/play.

[Too Hot]

this me make people angry but i have never used a bard or had 1 in my party and dont know y i should any1 want to persaude me

[NobleNick]

Sonic,

Does the Bard get Bardic Horn in IWD (no HoW)? Really? I wouldn't have guessed that; and of course couldn't tell, since I have never played a Bard in vanilla IWD. (Because the Bard in plain IWD got dissed so much in this forum.) However, I can tell you that the Bard's other abilities, though great to have, wouldn't have earned her a place in my party without "War Chant;" which is a HoW addition. (Now that I have played HoW and am deep into TotLM, I can reflect and say that the Bard's other songs [especially resistance to fear]are probably enough to earn her a spot on the team, even if the new areas were played with the old IWD skill set; but no one can, with a straight face, deny that the Bard gained a LOT in the HoW "rebalance.")

Chris, I don't find myself defending the Bard much at all, for several reasons:
1.) She gets more HP per level than a mage, and levels faster.
2.) Enemies going for the weak characters will often ignore the Bard and target the Mage.
3.) My Bard has lots of slots reserved for Stoneskin, Blur, and Mirror Image (which can be used individually or in any combination); meaning that, in a pinch, she actually makes a very good tank. (Though I find that this is virtually never needed.)

Agreed, motub; I don't use the Bard to actually "lead" the party in peace or in battle: I have another high CHA tank (my Ranger/Priest) that covers both duties. One reason is that I want War Chant playing BEFORE the fight begins, so that the melee carnage my party dishes out is maximized from the very start.

Too Hot, Copious justifications have previously been written; and if they aren't enough to persuade you, then I guess you just don't want to be pursuaded. (Which is O.K.; others have characters they rave about that I just don't get; e.g. the straight class Ranger or general Mage.) But, IF you have HoW installed, AND you have a fighter-heavy (e.g., Paladin, Fighter, Druid, Ranger, etc.) party and you just do the Bard thing; then, when she hits level 11, you'll see. And if you get the (expensive) Bardic Horn for her, then you'll see long before that...

Anyone, Is there anything you can get for the Bard in ANY of the adventuring areas that is more powerful than (or even almost as powerful as) the Bardic Horn of Vahalla? I was going to purchase the Viol of the Hollow Men; but saw the price (21,000 GP, IIRC) and decided that something that cheap wasn't worth the slot I'd use to carry it around. Did I screw up?

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!