American terrorists

[ElricMorlockin]

Originally posted by Rokenn: quote: Originally posted by ElricMorlockin: Second your point about pollution is well taken, since they obviously are not very fuel efficient. However, why dont the "green peace" type groups invest their money into alternative fuel source research that would be a viable alternative? Waiting for the government to "do it for them" is a waste of their resources and energies.

Personally I would be happy if the government spent as much on alternate energy sources as they spend on coal and oil companies. Sadly they give far more 'assistance' to these sources then clean energy alternatives.

and welcome to the fray! [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Thanks for the howdys'!

Clarify please! That the government "spends on" oil and coal companies. Do you mean physically spend for their own usages or are you refering to subsidies?

And a question: If the US government were to fund, say.... Cold Fusion, then who would run these power plants? More specifically who would be entitled to manage and operate said plants? If the government, is that such a good idea?

[Sir Taliesin]

Hybrid cars are a stop gap measure at best! What we need is fuel cells. They will be much cleaner and quieter. I'd rather see that than a hybrid. I heard on NPR several months ago, that some University up north had come up with a proto-type service station for fuel cells that had an estimated cost $100,000. That isn't to expensive in my book. The Government should be pushing for this technology!

[ElricMorlockin]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Hybrid cars are a stop gap measure at best! What we need is fuel cells. They will be much cleaner and quieter. I'd rather see that than a hybrid. I heard on NPR several months ago, that some University up north had come up with a proto-type service station for fuel cells that had an estimated cost $100,000. That isn't to expensive in my book. The Government should be pushing for this technology!

Another question! : D

What would be the most pressing reason for fuel cell technology IYOs'.
1.) Pollution control
2.) A new industry to jump start the economy
3.) National Security
4.) Energy independence

PS- I heard the same report, on a NPR piece, but cant remember if it was Michigan or Michigan State?

[Timber Loftis]

Pollution control (plus species and ecosystem protection - a related but distinct issue). Here's why:

It will not likely jumpstart the economy - especially not without diplomacy. Non-CFC spray cans didn't sell well at all until the Montreal Protocol was passed. And, the reason the USA pushed for that (in part) was it had Non-CFC technology, the EU (which wasn't the EU then, IIRC) didn't, and it created an insta-market for the product.

As for energy independence, our diplomacy has solved that problem quite well, and our (the USA I mean) military might is such that when push comes to shove we can certainly maintain the energy flow.

National Security is not, IMHO, a direct connection or result of alternative fuels. To the extent that it is, see the paragraph above.

[homer]

Originally posted by ElricMorlockin: And a question: If the US government were to fund, say.... Cold Fusion, then who would run these power plants? More specifically who would be entitled to manage and operate said plants? If the government, is that such a good idea

I would humbly suggest that it would be like a lot of other government programs. I apologize if I am wrong, but dose not the government start programs only to have them taken over by a company. What I mean is if the hypothetical where to happen then most likely the major fuel companies would be the ones to own the ‘cold fusion’ plants.

[ 01-06-2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: homer ]

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Pollution control (plus species and ecosystem protection - a related but distinct issue). Here's why: It will not likely jumpstart the economy - especially not without diplomacy. Non-CFC spray cans didn't sell well at all until the Montreal Protocol was passed. And, the reason the USA pushed for that (in part) was it had Non-CFC technology, the EU (which wasn't the EU then, IIRC) didn't, and it created an insta-market for the product. As for energy independence, our diplomacy has solved that problem quite well, and our (the USA I mean) military might is such that when push comes to shove we can certainly maintain the energy flow. National Security is not, IMHO, a direct connection or result of alternative fuels. To the extent that it is, see the paragraph above.

I disagree. National Security is a very good reason for wanting to develope this technology. I am not of the opinion that a certain oil rich country in the Middleast is a friend of ours. Yes we could militarily control them, but for how long? And if we did, we would literally have all the muslim nations in the world coming down on us. We can't take on half of the world at one time, even with our technology. Better to economically cut them off and watch them wither away, than have hundreds of thousands of American casualties just to hold the Saudi oil fields.

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by homer: quote: Originally posted by ElricMorlockin: And a question: If the US government were to fund, say.... Cold Fusion, then who would run these power plants? More specifically who would be entitled to manage and operate said plants? If the government, is that such a good idea

I would humbly suggest that it would be like a lot of other government programs. I apologize if I am wrong, but dose not the government start programs only to have them taken over by a company. What I mean is if the hypothetical where to happen then most likely the major fuel companies would be the ones to own the ‘cold fusion’ plants.[/QUOTE]Why the oil companies? Why not the electrical power industry, such as Southern or Duke or TVA? They would seem to be a better choice. BTW, while not a big fan of Government run corporations, TVA has done a beautiful job in keeping costs down! They have done a world of good for this region. Don't want to see them broken up.

[Timber Loftis]

If its billboards and website are any indication, BP is going to be one of the big providers and developers of alternative energies:
http://www.bp.com/bp_businesses/tran...page.asp?id=39

All other oil companies are lining up and spouting goodwill BS about it as well. One day, when the public actually demands it, these companies will be quite ready to assume the top dog role there as much as they do in the dino-fuel market.

To reply once more to alternative fuels re: National Security. "National Security" is an "in" phrase these days, but it's not dependent on renewable or alternative energy (oh, how I wish it were). Aside from the US's unquestioned ability to manipulate oil-rich countries against each other, the US also has quite enough oil reserves for the purpose of National Security. Wasn't that Dubya's excuse to go dig up virgin forest in Alaska?

[homer]

Originally posted by Sir Taliesin: Why the oil companies? Why not the electrical power industry, such as Southern or Duke or TVA? They would seem to be a better choice. BTW, while not a big fan of Government run corporations, TVA has done a beautiful job in keeping costs down! They have done a world of good for this region. Don't want to see them broken up.

The reason I suggest the oil companies is they would have the most interest for they have the most to loose. A viable alternate fuel source is not in the best interest of the major oil companies, yet. When it is, I believe that the companies willing to invest the most capital will be the one’s owning and operating the new fuel plant(s). I would think that the oil companies would have more to invest than some of these others.

[Rokenn]

Now here is something I'd like to see more of the tax dollars (seriously) going toward:
Penn State researchers are building a sonic refrigerator using acoustics to keep food cold.

Complete eleminating the need for harmful hydrofluorocarbons and hydrochlorofluorocarbons. It is kind of funny that the research is jointly funded by Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream and the US Navy, lol.

[ 01-06-2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Rokenn ]