Veterans tell kids: Just say no to war

[Chewbacca]

Story

Telling kids to say 'no' to war By Marjorie Coeyman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor PHILADELPHIA – John Grant and Frank Corcoran have both been restless this summer, eagerly awaiting the reopening of school. Yet the two men are not teachers and they are not students. Nor are they parents of school-age children. Rather, they are Vietnam vets with a message they long to bring into schools and share with a younger generation. The essence of that message: Don't be sucked into believing in notions of war as glorious and patriotic. War is an evil to be avoided at all costs. Military recruiters and government advertising often dominate access to schools and tell teens the opposite, Mr. Grant says. That's why servicemen who have fought need to tell them the truth. "In ads, you see out-of-work actors on helicopters," he says, shaking his head. "But that's not what it's really like. We've got to go out there and tell them that." Grant and Mr. Corcoran are both members of the St. Louis-based Veterans For Peace. The group was founded in the mid-1980s by two veterans, one who had fought in World War II, and the other a Vietnam vet. It sees its purpose as debunking false notions of war as glorious, and alerting the world - particularly those who have never fought - to what they see as the stark and horrible reality of combat. Part of its credo reads: "We find it sad that war seems so delightful, so often, to those that have no knowledge of it. We will proudly and patriotically continue to denounce war despite whatever misguided sense of euphoria supports it." Governments want young people to believe that war is necessary, the group believes, but that is rarely - if ever - true. Some members of VFP are pacifists, while others believe war may be necessary to counter aggression. But most agree that the US government has - at least at times - waged war unnecessarily. And they would like young people, particularly the potential enlistees, to examine the reasons for war much more critically than they are encouraged to. Schools aren't the only channel of outreach of VFP, but they are an important one, says David Cline, president of the group. "It's one of our mainstay activities, especially for the Vietnam vets," he says. "We're trying to pass our experience on to our children and the younger generation." But the group's forays into schools are limited partly by its small size (they have only 3,500 members nationwide), and partly by resistance from schools. "There are teachers who want their students to hear another point of view," Mr. Cline says. But many are uncomfortable with bringing into the classroom a message that may seem not only antiwar but possibly even antigovernment. Grant and Corcoran, who both live in the Philadelphia area, like to work together, and over the past several years have carried their antiwar message into middle schools, high schools, and both community and four-year colleges. But since the US invasion of Iraq, they have felt an additional sense of urgency about getting into schools. Their main concern: Military recruiters have become more active in schools and may be filling students' heads with false notions of war as a patriotic duty. They say they know how vulnerable teens may be to such a message because they themselves were once seduced by it. Grant grew up in a family that expected all males to serve in the military. He enlisted in the Army in the 1960s right after high school graduation and was sent to Vietnam. He was in radio intelligence and served his tour of duty without questioning his core conviction that he was doing something noble. Later in life, however, he began to read about that era of US history and "the scales fell from my eyes," he says today. "The idea that we were liberating people, that it was about democracy ... it was never really that." He came to believe that the Vietnam War had really been fought to achieve political dominance, something he felt could not justify the killing that he had witnessed. Corcoran's experience was even harsher. He enlisted in the Marines at age 18, at the height of the Vietnam war. What he saw when he arrived overseas to begin his service he can only characterize now as "slaughter." His notions of patriotism and glory faded almost instantly, he says. "All that stuff is gone in six weeks. All you're thinking about is survival." Corcoran hadn't served long before he was caught in a prolonged gun battle during which his two best friends were killed. Both were shot after they crawled to a dangerous spot in an effort to save his life when he was shot in the stomach. Corcoran says it was 20 years before he could talk about the incident, but now that he has started he wants to tell the story as often as he can. "Every time I tell it I make Michael and Danny's deaths less senseless," he says. Although Grant and Corcoran find that it is often hard to get permission to go into schools, once they get there, the greeting is usually a warm one. Most students - and many teachers - thank them profusely after their talk. "Many students say, 'I had no idea. Thank you for telling us the truth,' " Corcoran says. And at least one teacher thanked him for arousing more compassion in his students. He says their first response to events in Iraq had been to chant "Nuke them, nuke them," but after listening to Corcoran and Grant explain firsthand how war felt, they were both saddened and subdued. One reason VFP members hope students will take them seriously is that it is hard to challenge their heroism. Cline, for instance, served as an infantryman in Vietnam, was wounded three times, and received both a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star. He is today disabled as a result of the war wounds. Cline, in fact, feels so strongly about the need to educate people about the realities of military service that he also supports veterans who want to go into schools and urge students to enlist. "The whole idea of vets coming in and sharing their experiences with young people is always important, even when it's the rah-rah stuff," he says. But the purpose of VFP, he adds, is that "we have a responsibility to make sure young people hear both sides of the story."

[Xen]

That is great! :thubmsup: And true

[ 09-20-2003, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: Xen ]

[Felix The Assassin]

War is evil? Then man must be evil! The human race has been killing each other since known history. Recent history, look at the Balkans, Africa, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, the list goes on. Ancient history, Greece, Roman era. American history, though very short and shallow as compared to the Eureopean's, 1775 the Army was formed. We killed our British brothers, cousins etc for our freedom.
Fast forward a 100 years, Civil War, again we are killing kin. A few years later the Indian wars were at there height. WWI and WWII we came as the Ally to help the invaded.

Modern history brings us to the disaster's we call Korea and Vietnam. (The gov't was not fully committed to these "conflicts")
So, where does the evil lie?

Veterans from Vietnam faced agent orange, and mass casualties up close and personal.

The smaller conflicts of the 80s were not so well executed, and some that transpired are still TS classified today, and the media showed us the disaster from Iran. The Cold War also ended in the late 80's.

The 90's brought us DS/S, we were faced with lethal friendly fire, and PB pills. The VA says agent orange is responsible for some Vietnam era veterans health, the Gov't says it is not. The VA says PB pills is responsible for some of DS syndrome effects, the Gov't says it is not. So, where does the evil lie?

Y2K brought us into other parts of the world that was TS classified before. We have been guinea pigs for the Anthrax vaccination. I have seen what the side effects of a reaction to Anthrax can do, the Gov't says it was not the Anthrax that caused it. Where does the evil lie?

I have forevermore images ingrained in my mind that are still just as vivid today as they were back in 91. I have issues with my health that go unexplained. I used to wake up during the night, look at the clock, it would be the hour that related to my unit, every moring for years I would awake at 3:35. To this day, when in the field or displaced I still on occassion awake at 3:35. Fellow Conquerors, do not allow the Gov't to get away with it, I have learned that true patience is the true path. For with patience one can overcome the stupendously long and hard paper trail that lies bewteen us and the Gov't acknoledgememt of DS syndrome, and the affects of those PB pills. Where does the evil lie.

War is not glorious, but freedom demands a high price.
Without freedom, then what do you have?
Without war, what are your options?
In the face of the enemy, war is not glorious, but freedom demands a high price.
Watch the news, read the paper, listen to what the Gov't is saying, then look further, look into the heart of the enemy terroritoy and see what the Gov't is really doing. Then united we stand, we must make the Gov't admit to what it says is not, and to acknolwledge what is being done.
For war is not evil.....

Felix

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: War is not glorious, but freedom demands a high price. Without freedom, then what do you have? Without war, what are your options? In the face of the enemy, war is not glorious, but freedom demands a high price. Watch the news, read the paper, listen to what the Gov't is saying, then look further, look into the heart of the enemy terroritoy and see what the Gov't is really doing. Then united we stand, we must make the Gov't admit to what it says is not, and to acknolwledge what is being done. For war is not evil..... Felix

On the contrary Felix, war is incredibly evil, and incredibly new. Believe it or not, but we still live in the same age as the ancient Romans. We live in the same age as the ancient mesopotamians. We live in the age of civilisation, and as such we live in paranoid reactionism toward civilisation's most destructive side-affect: war. Yet if civilization (ie: settled, possessive human communitites, tying themselves to static plots of land in order to reap organised harvests) has only been around for ten thousand odd years or so, then warfare too is a new, artificial human invention. And one that can be done away with just as easily as slavery, female subservience and prejudicial racism. There is no need for any of these cultural factors, in any society/community, and once people no longer accept them as necessary, indeed once they no longer enter the minds of people at all, their psychological influence over individuals practically dissolves.

The things to ask yourself are (with brutal honesty in mind, not mere patriotic euphoria): what exactly is your 'nation'? where did it come from? How does it work? What sustains it? and from there, you may develope alternative theories concerning 'freedom'. I really, genuinely, and with all due practicality, believe that there is absolutely NO need for war. That's not to say that war won't ever happen, just that if enough people are re-educated as to how to maintain a cohesive human mass-community, you'll find that many people will no longer want to go through all the hard work of waging war. Have you ever noticed how the hard-currency/political clout 'prizes' of warfare always tend to benefit the victorious state and it's supporting power-groups, and not the individual workers that keep the state running?

Defending your territory from invasion is one thing, invading another person's territory because you think they might invade yours is another thing entirely. Your comrades that you know and love and respect are one group of people Felix, your government that uses you as a killing tool is another group entirely. You don't need them, but they sure as hell need you.

(edit for typos)

[ 09-20-2003, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[The Hierophant]

Oh, and Chewbacca, excellent article! It's heartening too see that there is yet hope for us all [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

[Felix The Assassin]

War is not evil.
How one executes war is evil, but war itself is not evil.

It is not the gun that killed, but the person who used the gun.

My tank cannot kill you, but when my tank is manned and I'm given the order, then my tank "CREW" using the tank will kill you.

My tank cannot go to war, but I can take my tank to war.

Without war we also maintain stablization. What would happen if we pulled our plug in Korea and came home?

What would happen if we pulled from the Balkans? Would war erupt, or would the people that have been killing each other for 100's of years go back to killing each other?

War is not evil, it has no face, it has no name, but the perusers of war and how it is carried out is where you are confused. For war without fighters, is still war, but where is the evil?

[Melusine]

That's just rhetoric. Waging war is evil, then.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: War is not evil. How one executes war is evil, but war itself is not evil. It is not the gun that killed, but the person who used the gun. My tank cannot kill you, but when my tank is manned and I'm given the order, then my tank "CREW" using the tank will kill you. My tank cannot go to war, but I can take my tank to war. Without war we also maintain stablization. What would happen if we pulled our plug in Korea and came home? What would happen if we pulled from the Balkans? Would war erupt, or would the people that have been killing each other for 100's of years go back to killing each other? War is not evil, it has no face, it has no name, but the perusers of war and how it is carried out is where you are confused. For war without fighters, is still war, but where is the evil?

I think we are 100% agreed in regards to your post there Felix [img]smile.gif[/img]
Yet your statements regarding Korea and the Balkans (indeed your profession itself)would indicate that you believe that the individual human must stop war with war, yes? This is where we differ in opinion. I think war can only be stopped, permanently, with self-actualisation: in teaching each individual human that to maintain a healthy community they need not follow orders at all . When the war-bands disperse, war ceases to exist. However, with prejudice being what it is at this particular phase of our species' development, letting go of prejudice cannot be done without risking utter devastation at the hands of those whom you 'assume' would attack you. A sad conundrum really. Yet the process of this re-education has already begun my friend. So long as one person believes it, their bretheren are legion. It may take thousands of years to take root, but we've got all the time in the universe.
It really does take a huge amount of courage to walk away from a fight, trust me man, I know. You don't know whether your would-be opponent will attack you from behind, or find some other means to take you out. But this I know for certain, if you don't ever walk away, then you will never stop fighting. You will never find peace. And this prospect isn't pleasant, no matter how macho we might want to be. The cycle has to stop somewhere, and it's the people who do choose to walk away from the fight that shall be our species' real heroes...in the long run.
So yes, we're very much alike Felix, we just use different methods to try and find peace, which is fine by me [img]smile.gif[/img] I wish you all the best.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Melusine: That's just rhetoric. Waging war is evil, then.

and yeah, that too

[Skunk]

War *is* evil - unfortunately though, there are an awful LOT of evil folk out there, so you will always need armed forces to defend yourself from theirs.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with setting starryed eyed kids straight on the realities of conflict and imbuing upon the idea that war is always to be considered as the *last resort* rather than an option that can be used in place of diplomacy.