Troy! (will contain spoilers)

[Lady Blue03]

<font color=pink>Well, I saw it today, and loved it. The battle scenes were great, and so was that last duel between Hector and Achillies

There wasn't anything I didn't like...except the fact I had to pee way bad about 40min until the end of the movie </font>

[The Hierophant]

Are you NUTS? This movie is terrible! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
(cf. my Troy thread)

[Dundee Slaytern]

Not everybody rates movies by their accuracy. [img]tongue.gif[/img] Sometimes, entertainment is entertainment.

Watching Troy tomorrow.

[Lady Blue03]

<font color=pink>Bah, what do you kiwis know about a good movie. Just because LotR got released a whole month earlier over there than anywhere else you think you're so cool

Plus, I didn't go because I care about historcal accuracy. If I wanted that I'd find something on the History channel [img]tongue.gif[/img] I went because of the action and because Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom look damn fine! Orlando Bloom even busted out his bow and went all Legolas style at the end </font>

[Bahamut]

Yeah and that Legolas style ruined his whole get-up for me hahaha [img]smile.gif[/img]

I enjoyed the movie. I really did. Because I also didn't mind the inaccuracies and such and enjoyed it as they presented it. I mean who cares, Helen of Sparta, I mean of Troy was sooo damn fine too

A face that launched a thousand ships indeed! [img]smile.gif[/img]

And we say men rule the world... ha. Think again.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Lady Blue03: <font color=pink>Plus, I didn't go because I care about historcal accuracy. If I wanted that I'd find something on the History channel [img]tongue.gif[/img] I went because of the action and because Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom look damn fine! Orlando Bloom even busted out his bow and went all Legolas style at the end </font>

Well, that certainly restores my faith in the latest generation of Americans...

[uss]

Though in most cases, the Hollywoodishness in movies disgusts me, I enjoyed this movie. It was quite similar to Gladiator.

The massive battle scenes were awesome and the choreography was nice. Anyone notice that Brat Pitt had a trademark shot - his first hit in the movie.


Bahamut, yeah, Helen of Sparta looked nice, but I think the priestess was hotter.

[Timber Loftis]

uss, I note that between Helen and the priestess, I wouldn't kick either out of my bed -- unless I could beat them to get to the floor.

Yeah, Bloom went all Legolas in the end, but at least it was foreshadowed. I loved Pitt's fight scenes. I also liked using Achilles as a dynamic character.

Now, I've got to bust out the Iliad and search out all the discrepancies -- but the director covered his ass by noting it was "based upon" the Iliad.

Tomorrow night on the History channel at 8 pm (Eastern time?) they begin a historical/factual review of the Trojan War -- I intend to be there.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Now, I've got to bust out the Iliad and search out all the discrepancies -- but the director covered his ass by noting it was "based upon" the Iliad. Tomorrow night on the History channel at 8 pm (Eastern time?) they begin a historical/factual review of the Trojan War -- I intend to be there.

I agree with most people here. I really liked the battles, hoplite formations and individual fight scenes. However, in my opinion good action scenes do not a good movie make...

BUT

I think there is alot wrong with this film. Here are some of the really glaring 'Hollywoodisations' that made me feel nautious:

- The characterisation of 'Good guys vs Bad guys' made me so damn angry! (ie: Horrible greedy Agamemnon vs Noble, if somewhat naive Priam etc) Homeric poetry contains no concept of 'good vs evil'. 'Strong vs Weak' maybe, but never the Christian idea of a moral high-ground. Heroes were heroic because they won battles and took glorious risks, or were part of a kingly bloodline. They could rape as many women as they wanted and enslave as many children, and still be noble, respectable men, so long as they were strong and brought home the bacon in battle. The only concept of Homeric morality rests in respect and recognition of the Gods and their dominance, which was at least touched on in the film, if somewhat superficially. And all men, no matter how cruel or how merciful, end up in the darkness and misery of the underworld. So a key message in Homeric poetry is to take what glory and wealth that you can, while you can!

- Menelaus, Agamemnon and Ajax do not die! They survive the 10-year-long war. Menelaus takes his prize (Helen) back home to Pylos and lives a long and happy life. In fact, Telemachus, the son of Odysseus, comes to him to seek help in reclaiming his lands later on in 'The Odyssey'.
Agamemnon is murdered by his wife Clytemnestra upon returning home to Mycenae as vengeance for sacrificing their daughter Iphigenia to Zeus before leaving for Troy. This in turn sparks off the great 'Oresteia' saga which follows Orestes (son of Agamemnon) killing his mother to avenge his father and in turn being harried by the furies for commiting matricide.
Ajax dies on the journey home, killed by Poseidon as punishment for desecrating one of his temples.
The idea that 'bad guys' have to die (indeed that 'bad guys' truly exist at all) in order for an ending to be satisfying makes me physically ill.

- Achilles does not fall in love with Briseis. She is a prize, an object, a spoil of war that Agamemnon and Achilles bicker over, nothing more. Agamemnon claims Briseis as his own, part of his tribute for being the King of the Achaens. Later on, when Achilles removes himself from battle Agamemnon offers him Briseis and a whole bunch of land and treasure in order to coax him into rejoining the combat. Achilles rejects the offer, he cares nothing for Briseis, she is so much war booty, as are all women in Homeric poetry (except maybe married Queens, who even so are still very subservient to their husbands). Achilles has several sons born to various concubines. He is by no means a loving monogamous partner. But again, we have the sickening addition of a Hollywood 'Love Story' in order to make this movie more appealing to the masses of consumer whores... err, I mean, to the 'general public'.

- The Trojan war lasted 10 years, not three days. If, as a director, you are worried that you can't fit the entire Iliad into a feature-length movie, you probably can't. So don't try. You insult the spirit of the original legend by trying to squeeze into a few hours a legendary tale that would have taken ancient Greek bards many nights to tell.

I have plenty more gripes, but you are probably getting tired with my ranting already. I really think that this is a half-decent story. If it wasn't based on Greek legend, but was instead a fantasy-story with different characters and locations then I would have liked it. But as it stands, Wolfgang Peterson has raped the legend of the Trojan War, turning it into a sickening farce of modern-day Hollywood sensibilities and money-making thematic tripe. I don't hate this movie per se, I just hate the artisitic dilution and cultural dumbing-down that this movie represents. Lord of the Rings was distorted enough, just as well IT wasn't directed in Hollywood [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mr Peterson is an American Jesus, he turned a fine vintage wine into a plastic bottle of Coca Cola. (and yes, I know he's German [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

[ 05-16-2004, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Bahamut]

Hiero now I think I know why the named the movie Troy... [img]smile.gif[/img] And yes, considering that the movie was way off, if they stuck with the real thing then it wouldn't have appealed to the people which is the point of your argument that why bother if they aren't going to base it with the real thing? [img]smile.gif[/img]

I still enjoyed it. Hehehehe It revived me to study Greek Mythology once more, the Odyssey and Illiad. So I guess it had a positive effect on me.

uss, I liked both women, but Helen of Sparta really rocks feature-wise, but being a bad-ass biatch well Briseis really is up there.

At least Brad Pitt pulled it off real well IMO.