of Gnomes and Elfs fighter/mages

Ultra Marine · 01-31-2006, 05:55 AM

Yes ... a spawn from my previous post. Lets compare the mc f/mage built of gnomes and elfs.

Is 1 extra slot of spell per level good enough to offset the elf who get +1 in sword and bows? Most of the time, my f/m spends 80% of the time in bows.

The gnome has that helm. I tried one of these but it still doesn't stop the gnome being whacked. It still has to rely on mirrors+sk.

Does 2 of the advantage above offset the advantage of the elf?

Just wondering. Nothing much to do right now.

ister · 01-31-2006, 11:59 AM

You also need to take into account the fact that the gnome gets a whopping +5 on saves against spells. To me that outweighs all the other factors put together. The only thing that slightly balances it is the use of necromancy spells.

Klorox · 01-31-2006, 05:51 PM

I would take a Gnome over an Elf for a few reasons:

1)When you advance far enough, a +1 THAC0 doesn't matter much
2)They can survive longer (higher CON)
3)They can survive longer (+5 to Saves vs. Spells)
4)They're +1 to INT helps the Mage side of things a lot
5)In this game, the +3 AC is just awesome (of course they're both still going to get hit, but +3 is significant, and will help those Mirror Images and Stoneskins last longer)
6)They're just flat out cooler

Aerich · 01-31-2006, 11:12 PM

It all comes down to magic. Does the loss of necromancy bother you? To me, the main downside is the loss of Skull Trap, which hurts the F/Ill's ability as a spell bomber. Also, some of the necro spells are decent for a spellsword.

ZFR · 02-01-2006, 10:31 AM

Gnomes are better. Have you ever heard of six elves beating the game at level 1?

--------------------
Midget Gems - Heroes in their own lunch time.

Klorox · 02-01-2006, 06:46 PM

You lost me ZFR

Ultra Marine · 02-01-2006, 08:16 PM

huh? 6 elves?

Elf looks like legolas. Gnome looks like frodo with a beard.

javan · 02-01-2006, 09:56 PM

Klorox, I think ZFR is referring to this thread

Aerich · 02-02-2006, 03:30 AM

Spells aside, I'd say that gnomes are a slightly better option: gnomes have the better saves, possible 18 Con, +3 AC from helm, and +1 Int vs. the elves' +1 with bows/longswords, possible 19 Dex giving another +1 to hit with bows, charm resistance, and max 17 Con.

Spell-wise, it's about your party composition. Do you have another caster? How good is that caster; is it a bard, another specialist, or multi or dual classed? If you have a good second (and third?) option within your party to cast the necromancy spells, then the party isn't hurt by having a specialist instead of a generalist as a melee mage.

Edit: of course, having an illusionist filling the F/M role means you will probably never use spells like Ghoul Touch and Lich Touch. Does that bother you?

Chill Touch, too - a nearly worthless spell...

[ 02-02-2006, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

Ultra Marine · 02-02-2006, 03:50 AM

I tend to lean towards a specialist myself as I will be using bards from now on.

Most of the time, my f/m is on bows unless there is an emergency. That means more than 50% of the time on bows. I wonder how the +1 with bows stack up for damage against gnomes without +1 for bows.

Does anyboby knows how to do a matematical comparison?
(obviously I don't LOL....)

01-31-2006, 11:59 AM	#2
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 56 Posts: 291	You also need to take into account the fact that the gnome gets a whopping +5 on saves against spells. To me that outweighs all the other factors put together. The only thing that slightly balances it is the use of necromancy spells. __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

01-31-2006, 05:51 PM	#3
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	I would take a Gnome over an Elf for a few reasons: 1)When you advance far enough, a +1 THAC0 doesn't matter much 2)They can survive longer (higher CON) 3)They can survive longer (+5 to Saves vs. Spells) 4)They're +1 to INT helps the Mage side of things a lot 5)In this game, the +3 AC is just awesome (of course they're both still going to get hit, but +3 is significant, and will help those Mirror Images and Stoneskins last longer) 6)They're just flat out cooler __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

01-31-2006, 11:12 PM	#4
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	It all comes down to magic. Does the loss of necromancy bother you? To me, the main downside is the loss of Skull Trap, which hurts the F/Ill's ability as a spell bomber. Also, some of the necro spells are decent for a spellsword. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-01-2006, 06:46 PM	#6
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	You lost me ZFR __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

02-02-2006, 03:30 AM	#9
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Spells aside, I'd say that gnomes are a slightly better option: gnomes have the better saves, possible 18 Con, +3 AC from helm, and +1 Int vs. the elves' +1 with bows/longswords, possible 19 Dex giving another +1 to hit with bows, charm resistance, and max 17 Con. Spell-wise, it's about your party composition. Do you have another caster? How good is that caster; is it a bard, another specialist, or multi or dual classed? If you have a good second (and third?) option within your party to cast the necromancy spells, then the party isn't hurt by having a specialist instead of a generalist as a melee mage. Edit: of course, having an illusionist filling the F/M role means you will probably never use spells like Ghoul Touch and Lich Touch. Does that bother you? Chill Touch, too - a nearly worthless spell... [ 02-02-2006, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ] __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-31-2006, 05:55 AM	#1
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	Yes ... a spawn from my previous post. Lets compare the mc f/mage built of gnomes and elfs. Is 1 extra slot of spell per level good enough to offset the elf who get +1 in sword and bows? Most of the time, my f/m spends 80% of the time in bows. The gnome has that helm. I tried one of these but it still doesn't stop the gnome being whacked. It still has to rely on mirrors+sk. Does 2 of the advantage above offset the advantage of the elf? Just wondering. Nothing much to do right now.

02-01-2006, 10:31 AM	#5
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	Gnomes are better. Have you ever heard of six elves beating the game at level 1? -------------------- Midget Gems - Heroes in their own lunch time.

02-01-2006, 08:16 PM	#7
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	huh? 6 elves? Elf looks like legolas. Gnome looks like frodo with a beard.

02-01-2006, 09:56 PM	#8
javan Zhentarim Guard Join Date: September 5, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 65 Posts: 396	Klorox, I think ZFR is referring to this thread

02-02-2006, 03:50 AM	#10
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	I tend to lean towards a specialist myself as I will be using bards from now on. Most of the time, my f/m is on bows unless there is an emergency. That means more than 50% of the time on bows. I wonder how the +1 with bows stack up for damage against gnomes without +1 for bows. Does anyboby knows how to do a matematical comparison? (obviously I don't LOL....)

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