Wicca and Other forms of Neo Paganism

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Mouse: [B] And if that air that isstinky with fumes just happens to come from the ambulance that is taking a man who has just had a heart attack to hospital? And if that man who survives the heart attack just happens to be the doctor who diagnoses your childs life-threatening disease? And ifyellow foam in like Brighton sea is the byproduct of a petrochemical plant that produces the raw materials that allow for the synthesis of an insulin substitute that keeps alive a scientist who discovers a cure for cancer? Sure, live innature that is gorgeous and beautiful, and not in a rubbish tip., but remember, not everything may be as obvious or simple as it appears.

Mouse, you are being simplistic. Re the stinky fumes point, as you must know very well, there are alternative forms of fuel, and if big business wasn't doing so well out of the whole oil thing, they could have been viable a long time ago. Exxon mobile (the biggest company on the planet) made £17.9 billion dollars last year out of oil, and not one cent did they spent on research and development of sustainable forms of energy.

Re the petro chemical plant - I make the same point. Surely humans, with all our ingenuity, can use our awesome intelligence (well, potentially...) to develop technology that is not going to end up wrecking the planet. Cleaner options to make human lives better than the ones you cite could be available to us, and in some cases are. However, big business does not find it to its advantage to make the changes, in many cases.

I find your thinking short term and simplistic here!

Right, now I've got that off my chest.........


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Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Silver Cheetah]

Goodnight to any still posting here! It's been a very interesting discussion - thanks Dio!

Tired Cheetah off to bed, where I should have been hours ago! (You too Mouse, what are you still doing up!)

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Fljotsdale]

Hm. Just finished reading this thread. The silver feline suggested it was interesting. It is.

But I am not a religious person at all. I'm into nature, yes. I believe a spider, or an ant or a bee or wasp, a wolf, or cow or eagle or platypus, plants, etc, all have as much right to life as I do. I avoid killing things, and try to save the lives of things. (I kill slugs, reluctantly, when there are so many my plants are all being killed by them. And I kill fleas because I can't stand my cat - or me! - being tormented by them. But I feel like a murderer...)
Yes, I do eat living things - plants, occasionally meat or fish - because I am part of a system that is dependent on everything eating some other living thing. It is a natural part of the planetary eco-system. I am a part of that system, bound up in it, born of it and destined to die and have my flesh contribute to the life of other living things, as other living things have contributed to my life. I feel that I am an integral part of this world, this universe. I take from it and I give to it, as we all do. I love it because I am a part of it and it is a part of me.
I see nothing in this that is anything to do with worship. I have no need of worship.
I don't know if there is a creator or not. I don't know if the universe, this planet, or the life on it is any part of any god. It doesn't matter.

In the end, it is love that matters.

Love for life in all its variety, love for the eco-system, love for the planet, for the universe itself. To me, that is too big to be bound up in any human god-system. To vast and unreachable to be trammelled by the gods we create in our own petty images.

I guess I really shouldn't be in this thread!

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Silver Cheetah: Mouse, you are being simplistic. Re the stinky fumes point, as you must know very well, there are alternative forms of fuel, and if big business wasn't doing so well out of the whole oil thing, they could have been viable a long time ago. Exxon mobile (the biggest company on the planet) made £17.9 billion dollars last year out of oil, and not one cent did they spent on research and development of sustainable forms of energy. Re the petro chemical plant - I make the same point. Surely humans, with all our ingenuity, can use our awesome intelligence (well, potentially...) to develop technology that is not going to end up wrecking the planet. Cleaner options to make human lives better than the ones you cite could be available to us, and in some cases are. However, big business does not find it to its advantage to make the changes, in many cases. I find your thinking short term and simplistic here! Right, now I've got that off my chest.........

SC, with all due respect, whilst I offer ponderables which at least invite debate, you respond with assertions which you wish to be accepted at face value. In the spirit of logical analysis, here are the statements that I would wish substantiated...............

if big business wasn't doing so well out of the whole oil thing, they could have been viable a long time ago.

and not one cent did they spent on research and development of sustainable forms of energy.

big business does not find it to its advantage to make the changes, in many cases.

And here is an extract from the ExxonMobil Website...

Use of coal, oil and natural gas is the major source of carbon dioxide emissions from human activities. A large part of the oil we use is in the form of gasoline and diesel fuel to power cars and trucks. In an effort to find ways of reducing the amount of fuel needed to power these vehicles, while retaining all of the useful functions they provide, we have entered a joint venture with Ford Motor Company to look at a wide range of opportunities including: new fuel-engine combinations, the potential for fuel cell powered cars, and the use of alternative fuels.

Planting trees is an effective way to reduce the accumulation of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. More importantly, well-designed tree planting and forest preservation projects can help protect ecosystems and contribute to the goal of sustainable development. In 1998, in conjunction with American Forests, we planted 500,000 trees in the U.S. We are committed to planting an equal number of trees during 1999. We have also been working with The Nature Conservancy to develop a large forest preservation project in Peru, and with Conservation International to develop a similar project in Indonesia.

Conspiracy theories are very easy to construct and hard to debunk. They do however imho tend to lead to sterile debates.

Finally, the most crucial question is - what exactly have you got off your chest.




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Regards



Mouse

[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Hm. Just finished reading this thread. The silver feline suggested it was interesting. It is. But I am not a religious person at all. I'm into nature, yes. I believe a spider, or an ant or a bee or wasp, a wolf, or cow or eagle or platypus, plants, etc, all have as much right to life as I do. I avoid killing things, and try to save the lives of things. (I kill slugs, reluctantly, when there are so many my plants are all being killed by them. And I kill fleas because I can't stand my cat - or me! - being tormented by them. But I feel like a murderer...) Yes, I do eat living things - plants, occasionally meat or fish - because I am part of a system that is dependent on everything eating some other living thing. It is a natural part of the planetary eco-system. I am a part of that system, bound up in it, born of it and destined to die and have my flesh contribute to the life of other living things, as other living things have contributed to my life. I feel that I am an integral part of this world, this universe. I take from it and I give to it, as we all do. I love it because I am a part of it and it is a part of me. I see nothing in this that is anything to do with worship. I have no need of worship. I don't know if there is a creator or not. I don't know if the universe, this planet, or the life on it is any part of any god. It doesn't matter. In the end, it is love that matters. Love for life in all its variety, love for the eco-system, love for the planet, for the universe itself. To me, that is too big to be bound up in any human god-system. To vast and unreachable to be trammelled by the gods we create in our own petty images. I guess I really shouldn't be in this thread!

Love and worship. Same thing. Worship's a bad word maybe. Too many christian connotations! To love, and to reverence. Reverence in the sense of to care for, to make special.

In what I feel for my world, for nature, there is no fear, no sense of subjugating myself, of bowing down. Awe, yes, in the way that anything amazing is awesome. A flower is awesome. So is a bird. So are you! So am I!

And no, I hate the idea of a god system! That implies subjugating ourselves, making ourselves less than we really are. Gods are figments of our imagination. That's not what I, or most of the people in this thread are saying at all.

That's it, now I really AM going to bed!


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Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[This message has been edited by Silver Cheetah (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

G'night, spotty-paws!

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Mouse: SC, with all due respect, whilst I offer ponderables which at least invite debate, you respond with assertions which you wish to be accepted at face value. In the spirit of logical analysis, here are the statements that I would wish substantiated............... if big business wasn't doing so well out of the whole oil thing, they could have been viable a long time ago. and not one cent did they spent on research and development of sustainable forms of energy. big business does not find it to its advantage to make the changes, in many cases. And here is an extract from the ExxonMobil Website... Use of coal, oil and natural gas is the major source of carbon dioxide emissions from human activities. A large part of the oil we use is in the form of gasoline and diesel fuel to power cars and trucks. In an effort to find ways of reducing the amount of fuel needed to power these vehicles, while retaining all of the useful functions they provide, we have entered a joint venture with Ford Motor Company to look at a wide range of opportunities including: new fuel-engine combinations, the potential for fuel cell powered cars, and the use of alternative fuels. Planting trees is an effective way to reduce the accumulation of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. More importantly, well-designed tree planting and forest preservation projects can help protect ecosystems and contribute to the goal of sustainable development. In 1998, in conjunction with American Forests, we planted 500,000 trees in the U.S. We are committed to planting an equal number of trees during 1999. We have also been working with The Nature Conservancy to develop a large forest preservation project in Peru, and with Conservation International to develop a similar project in Indonesia. Conspiracy theories are very easy to construct and hard to debunk. They do however imho tend to lead to sterile debates. Finally, the most crucial question is - what exactly have you got off your chest.

Mouse - not going to answer this now, because as I've said several times all ready (only people keep posting innersting things) I'm going to bed. Exxon are great at public relations stuff. Please go to the Greenpeace site and look at the Dirty Tricks report on Exxon. And then let's discuss another day!!

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Ascended Mistress of Illumination OR Paws R Us

[Mouse]

Nighty night SC - personally, I'm amazed I can still think straight I blame Rosemount Estate 2000 Grenache Shiraz for the whole farrago.

And here's a thought, if you accept that both Greenpeace and ExxonMobil have agendas which their public relations are designed to promote, who can you trust to be the "honest broker"?

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Regards



Mouse

[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Mouse: Nighty night SC - personally, I'm amazed I can still think straight I blame Rosemount Estate 2000 Grenache Shiraz for the whole farrago. And here's a thought, if you accept that both Greenpeace and ExxonMobil have agendas which their public relations are designed to promote, who can you trust to be the "honest broker"?

I'd sooner trust Greenpeace, myself. The financial interests of ExxonMobil make 'em unreliable witnesses!!

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Dubbed Queen of the Illuminati by Diogenes.

[Lifetime]

I would rather live believing God and then Die and find out there issint, Than live not believing God and die to find out there is..

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No-Name Face