Should you smack your children?

[Mouse]

Facinating thread. It reminds me of a rollercoaster, fun bits, dull bits and just a few bits where it seems to be plunging out of control, only to get back on track at the last minute. I look forward to reading more of it tomorrow, but as even Moderators have to sleep sometimes, I'm off to bed. I would just like to make one simple request

PLEASE KEEP PERSONAL ATTACKS/INNUENDO/INSULTS OUT OF THIS THREAD

If you have trouble understanding this simple edict then refrain from posting meantine and e-mail me for a fuller explanation

Oh, and cutting down on some of the nested quotes would be nice too.

Originally posted by Lord of Alcohol: So its not ok to smack your kids when your angry. Do you have to wait until your happy to spank them? Perhaps institute a series of random spankings at random times and random severity just to "keep them on their toes"? After all they have to have done SOMETHING wrong at some point.

What the hell are you talking about?

LOA if you want to contribbute meaningful dialog you are welcome but the mods have asked that the troll behaviour be checked at the door..please do so.

You have obviously just chosen to attack my point of view and only used a very tiny piece of it to do so.

[AzureWolf]

Originally posted by MagiK: Oh puhlease! dont go dragging that tired thing out again. Spending time with two year olds has NOTHING in common with being a paerent. Just because I babysat for years as a kid did not mean that I knew the first thing about parenting.

Well excuse me but I did more then a lot of parents I know in looking after my little sister. I fed her, changed her, got her to sleep at night and practically raised her as my own. Most parents I know dont do half the shit that I did, so if you want to go blow that off just because you think its baby sitting thats your problem.
I did not just "spend time" with a two year old, I raised her. But of course since I am just her brother that means absolutely nothing.
Thats nice to hear

[Talthyr Malkaviel]

Originally posted by MagiK: Increadible and highly unlikely, but Ill accept his word and mention that he might possibly want to notify the Guiness people. I personally have never met a human who has never raised his voice. But that only speaks to my own limitations

Why is that incredible and highly unlikely?? I find that rather asumptive, maybe he knows a whole plethora of people who have found the same as him.. so maybe it's not so unlikely, maybe you have only met people who use your method of discipline, that deosn't mean the ones who use his are a rarity.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: I should have pointed out, that a key part of humanity is normalising our situation. It's a survival mechanism. We see it macro, regarding societies and natural hazards. I can't comprehend people choosing to live in an earthquake zone. Others get freaked by all Australias killing wildlife. Others are freaked out by a city, with it's crime. Yet the residents in the concerned areas normalise their environment. A victim of spousal abuse can, and does put up with what others would immediately reject. For years. The abnormal becomes normal. "How it is". We survive. So a child is going to normalise their situation. The key to punishing is diversity, not aggression, nor violence. If I child is always sent to their room, it loses impact. If a child is always docked pocket money, so that they never have any, or are in debt, again, the punishment loses effect. By losing effect I mean, presenting a long term behavioural shift. A smack may in the short term seem to work, by initiating change, yet these are mere survival instincts. Cmprehensive behavioural change is a result of choice, not instinct.

You know... I have read this three times and still have no idea what you are trying to convey [img]smile.gif[/img] Im pretty sure a 3 year old would not get it either [img]smile.gif[/img]

I may not be able to out write you in trying to explain my views, Im left with falling back on the one thing that will do more to explain what I mean than any words I can write....Raise a child of your own, then come talk and we can discuss things from a more common reference. Im not saying you will come to the same conclusions but Im sure I will have many laughs at your attempts of trying to talk or reason with your 2 year old [img]smile.gif[/img] (not not all spanking involves pain, at two the swat on the diaper is all about startling them and getting their attention fixed on an unpleasent notion associated with some behaviour)[/QUOTE]MagiK, human collective knowledge is built upon the precept that we can learn from others without going through the same experience. Without "reinventing the wheel".

One does not need to be a parent to be an expert on child rearing. The parent of a child is an expert on the experience of rearing THAT child. There is no way to measure right or wrong, because you cannot go back and repeat the scenario with a different set of actions to see what the outcome is!

However, we can gather information from each other. From those that have gone before us, and those doing it while we speak. We can pick each others brains and compare notes. That is the most effective way to ascertain the best course of action, not relying on our single course of action as the only way.

[The.Relic]

Heh heh. Magik my friend, I never said I don't raise my voice, I just don't raise it directed at my children [img]smile.gif[/img] I came from a very abusive home, and made my own severe mistakes as I aged. It is just that the terror of what I went through growing up, plus the lessons I have learned from my own grave mistakes is so ingrained in me, that I have sworn an oath to myself that my Brittany and Bryce will never experience those things with me. That they will have a positive, nurturing, loving dad who will treat them with all the respect any person has the right to expect. I am just fortunate that things have worked out for us as they have [img]smile.gif[/img]

[AzureWolf]

Originally posted by MagiK: Increadible and highly unlikely, but Ill accept his word and mention that he might possibly want to notify the Guiness people. I personally have never met a human who has never raised his voice. But that only speaks to my own limitations

Oh real nice, so you doubt a parents word now because you dont agree with it?
Maybe because it reflects badly on you?

[Moiraine]

Originally posted by Yorick: I should have pointed out, that a key part of humanity is normalising our situation. It's a survival mechanism. We see it macro, regarding societies and natural hazards. I can't comprehend people choosing to live in an earthquake zone. Others get freaked by all Australias killing wildlife. Others are freaked out by a city, with it's crime. Yet the residents in the concerned areas normalise their environment. A victim of spousal abuse can, and does put up with what others would immediately reject. For years. The abnormal becomes normal. "How it is". We survive. So a child is going to normalise their situation. The key to punishing is diversity, not aggression, nor violence. If I child is always sent to their room, it loses impact. If a child is always docked pocket money, so that they never have any, or are in debt, again, the punishment loses effect. By losing effect I mean, presenting a long term behavioural shift. A smack may in the short term seem to work, by initiating change, yet these are mere survival instincts. Cmprehensive behavioural change is a result of choice, not instinct.

How true. [img]smile.gif[/img] From Blue Board to Brown Board, Yorick's sparkling mind shines true, as always. Feels damn good to be back ! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Another thought. No parent is ever perfect. And it does not matter. Because whatever mistakes we may make, if we put in his/her upbringing all the love and all the responsibility we have inside us, the child knows it and behaves accordingly. IMHO, the only thing a child needs to grow into a full human being is feeling secure in the love and approval and care of his parents and the people who love him. [img]smile.gif[/img] If he has got that, he will be free to grow.

Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Oh puhlease! dont go dragging that tired thing out again. Spending time with two year olds has NOTHING in common with being a paerent. Just because I babysat for years as a kid did not mean that I knew the first thing about parenting.

Well excuse me but I did more then a lot of parents I know in looking after my little sister. I fed her, changed her, got her to sleep at night and practically raised her as my own. Most parents I know dont do half the shit that I did, so if you want to go blow that off just because you think its baby sitting thats your problem.
I did not just "spend time" with a two year old, I raised her. But of course since I am just her brother that means absolutely nothing.
Thats nice to hear [/QUOTE]Azure we talked about this several pages back, you had to do more than you should have, and your parents were apparently not parents. What you are tlaking about is neglect and terror and pain for a child to go through, I think that this in and of itself has made you unable to really see things in anything like an unbiased way, you base everything on the one fact that YOU had to raise your sister instead of your parents.... My background is from a thankfully more normal family where there was a mother and father to raise kids, and my children are also benefiting from having two parents who love and care for them. Your problem is not wether spanking is right or wrong, your problem appears to be "what are NORMAL parents supposed to be like" I do hope that with the back ground you describe that you do seek counseling before marriage and having children of your own. My kids are NOT being ignored, they are not being beaten senseless, nor are they having arbitrary rules and chaos introduced to their lives.
And I repeat as a consequence of MY methods (and my wifes) my kids have moved beyond the need of spanking. We have worked out the rules and they know that if it is necessary I will spank them but they don't do things that require that drastic an actiuon..I havent had to actually punish them in over a year ....so Im happy, and so are they.

[Ladyzekke]

Originally posted by The.Relic: Heh heh. Magik my friend, I never said I don't raise my voice, I just don't raise it directed at my children [img]smile.gif[/img] I came from a very abusive home, and made my own severe mistakes as I aged. It is just that the terror of what I went through growing up, plus the lessons I have learned from my own grave mistakes is so ingrained in me, that I have sworn an oath to myself that my Brittany and Bryce will never experience those things with me. That they will have a positive, nurturing, loving dad who will treat them with all the respect any person has the right to expect. I am just fortunate that things have worked out for us as they have [img]smile.gif[/img]

Relic you are a good father, and Brittany and Bryce will benefit from that their entire lives. [img]smile.gif[/img] Am I considered too old for you to adopt me? j/k!