The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[250]

Ladyzekke, you are right, but then again

if some spirit has flaws, and God keep it in a cage, or better yet, NEVER let it born as human, then his flaws would never be flaws becasue this spirit cannot really inflict any pains, suffers on others (because there is none to inflict upon)

how do you answer that?

ok, the following question I am going to ask may sound very very offensive, but forgive my curiousity (ignorance, in some's eyes)
you said because God loves us, he let us exist, right?
well, if there is no God, we exist anyway

listen to me before you say anything, you gained that knowledge by watching TV, while I gained same inspiration from playing Diablo II
ok, so what happens is, there are some extremely rare item that would occasionally pop out from dead monsters in Diablo II. the chances are, you can never expect to bump into one, because those good items drop say, 1 game out of every million. but funny thing is, there still people using those items

so I had to think, our universe is immensely big, and who knows what happened that created JUST the right condition, at JUST the right time , at JUST the right place so that we came to exist?

you aim a gun to sky trillion times, that evetually you will kill something, see my point? I am not asking to "win" but in hope to learn

[Larry_OHF]

I hope I have siad enough, without leaving something important out.
I hate posting something, only to be misunderstood because I did not do a good job of writing in the first place.
That is the reason I usually avoif these debates. I am not good at it.

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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[250]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Wow! Ladyzekke! You may not realize how close you are to what my religion teaches. We believe in a premortal life. We have always existed as intelligences, and God created our Spirits, which gives Him the title of Father. He wanted us to become like Him, and live with Him, but as mere Spirits, we could not progress. He had a plan laid out for our progression. We would come to earth, take on mortal bodies, learn to love Him and grow more spiritually and develop our faith. We were in His presence at the time, so faith was nonexistant. If we were not able to see Him with our own eyes, and in fact remember anything about our existance with Him, we could grow our faith. Therefore, He made this plan for us to come to earth. He wanted to provide a Savior for us as well, because He knew that in all our efforts, we would fall short. Our savior stepped up and said, "send me, and the glory be to thee, our God." Lucifer wanted to have the glory for himself. He said that he would make us do it his way, and we would all follow his lead. God chose Jesus to be our Savior. Lucifer was angry, and rebelled against God. A war commenced, which caused the casting out of Lucifer (and 1/3 of the host of heaven )(reference in Old Testament,Isaiah 14:12 and Luke 10:18)...Anyway, the Adam and Eve thing began,,,and in Adam we all die, yet in the Blood of Christ are we made alive. We are here on Earth as a school of sorts. Those that get very far will return to live in the presence of the Father. Those that do not put forth much effort will not get as high on the totem pole. I hope the BRIEF synopsis of my faith is not confusing, and helps to expain "my" perspective of things.

it makes sense, yet, it is not something one can prove or disapprove. I simply cannot shut my eyes from it, because in my knowledge, I cannot say it right or wrong. I will keep my eyes open, hopefully that one day I will gain the same insight as you have shown me

[250]

funny, I cannot question pre-life, because there is no proof or disproof. to say that pre-life doesn't exist is as ignorance as accepting it wholely.

I don't know man, it seems to me that choose "faith" is an easy way out. do correct me, man, I am confused



[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 09-08-2001).]

[Ladyzekke]

Larry - You are right, we think along very same lines on this I think!

250 - I think I am a bit confused at this paragraph you wrote, not sure what you mean:

if some spirit has flaws, and God keep it in a cage, or better yet, NEVER let it born as human, then his flaws would never be flaws becasue this spirit cannot really inflict any pains, suffers on others (because there is none to inflict upon)

My thoughts were that flawed spirits were NOT kept in a cage, but given the chance to grow and improve in Earth. What spirts are you mentioning that were NOT allowed to be born as humans may I ask? Need to know this to respond

Dunno what really to say to this statement 250:

well, if there is no God, we exist anyway

I have never even thought that there was NO God in my entire life. Guess it is a faith thing, as I have never felt alone in my life, even when I am sitting at home with nobody home, I just can feel and sense a presence all of the time. And I pray, and I get my answers from praying, some in amazing ways too. Dunno, again, I have a strong faith that God exists, and Jesus as well, so hard to comment on "if there is no God" sorry on that one.

Hard to exactly answer this one as well:

listen to me before you say anything, you gained that knowledge by watching TV, while I gained same inspiration from playing Diablo II
ok, so what happens is, there are some extremely rare item that would occasionally pop out from dead monsters in Diablo II. the chances are, you can never expect to bump into one, because those good items drop say, 1 game out of every million. but funny thing is, there still people using those items

so I had to think, our universe is immensely big, and who knows what happened that created JUST the right condition, at JUST the right time , at JUST the right place so that we came to exist?

And 250, I will never laugh or demean you for thinking about things from a computer game, TV, radio, whatever, as that is the way things work in our lives, things and ideas hit you at the strangest times and from sometimes stranger sources. Doesn't matter though, it is the "thought" that counts

OK, I'm going to dissect a sentence of yours 250, cause I just don't get where you are going or what you mean? Confused..

the chances are, you can never expect to bump into one, because those good items drop say, 1 game out of every million. but funny thing is, there still people using those items

OK, so you say that these items are Extremely rare, but people are still using them... Again, not sure what you mean on that one Two Fiffie, could you try to rephrase it another way? Sorry, I'm dumb!



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[Ladyzekke]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I hope I have siad enough, without leaving something important out. I hate posting something, only to be misunderstood because I did not do a good job of writing in the first place. That is the reason I usually avoif these debates. I am not good at it.

I think you said things very well myself Larry!

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[250]

sorrrrrrrie. lol

damn, my english sucks THAT bad?

oh well, what I meant about first question is:

the falw is not a flaw unless it can POTENTIALLY cause impact. so if a spirit is never born, its flaw will never inflict any damage, right? of course, to let the spirits learn and grow makes more sense, because that would be just like God himself, and that sounds more like God's way

so, forget about my first question, now lets go for the second one:
what I was saying is, no matter how low the possibility, as long as it is possble, it can happen. just like those "rare" items, because it is possible for them to drop, therefore, there are the people who get them.

same with how we human came to exist. it was just one sparkle of fire that ignited a tremendous explosive creation billions of trillions years ago, then, BOOM, we came to live. that is hardly a coincidence, it is the inevitable. and it does not require a God to make it happen

does that make me clear?

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by 250: funny, I cannot question pre-life, because there is proof or disproof. to say that pre-life doesn't exist is as ignorance as accepting it wholely. I don't know man, it seems to me that choose "faith" is an easy way out. do correct me, man, I am confused

John 7:17" If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

How about this.
This is the way I learned it.
Compare faith to a seed.
You have a tiny little seed, and you want it to sprout, to see if it is a good seed, or if it does not, it is bad. If the seed sprouts, you know it is good, and thus you have proven a small thing. If it does not grow, then that could mean that you did not nurture the seed, and give it a chance.
Ok...let's say that the seed has now sprouted, but it is a small, little thing. To continue to nurture, and take care of that seed will help you grow the sapling into an enormous tree.
To begin, you have to give the seed a place to grow in your heart.
Next, ask God if He is there. (that means prayer)
Now, the fruits of the Spirit will bring a feeling of love, peace, joy, etc.(Gal.5:22,23), but will not be a loud voice. You will not get a phone call and God say, Yo! I is here!
No...he will send the Comforter to you, and the undeniable feeling of the Spirit of Truth can leave you no doubt.
I can talk until my dying day, and none of my words would hold any ground until the Spirit testified the truth of it unto you. Without the Spirit, my words are nothing.



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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[250]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: John 7:17" If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." How about this. This is the way I learned it. Compare faith to a seed. You have a tiny little seed, and you want it to sprout, to see if it is a good seed, or if it does not, it is bad. If the seed sprouts, you know it is good, and thus you have proven a small thing. If it does not grow, then that could mean that you did not nurture the seed, and give it a chance. Ok...let's say that the seed has now sprouted, but it is a small, little thing. To continue to nurture, and take care of that seed will help you grow the sapling into an enormous tree. To begin, you have to give the seed a place to grow in your heart. Next, ask God if He is there. (that means prayer) Now, the fruits of the Spirit will bring a feeling of love, peace, joy, etc.(Gal.5:22,23), but will not be a loud voice. You will not get a phone call and God say, Yo! I is here! No...he will send the Comforter to you, and the undeniable feeling of the Spirit of Truth can leave you no doubt. I can talk until my dying day, and none of my words would hold any ground until the Spirit testified the truth of it unto you. Without the Spirit, my words are nothing.

makes sense
another thing, are we required to have faith? to put faith in something we or I totally have no knowledge of, that just sounds like "blind faith"

are you asking me to give "blind faith" a chance?

dont get me wrong, I am not trying to trip you, it is just I have not yet grasped the whole concept.

also, let me summerize what I have heard so far

suppose there is a God
then it is very well possible that we exist as pre-life form
we were sinned, imperfect
God want us to be like him, and we cannot do that at his presence
so he let us born on earth, so that we can suffer, grow, and improve

by the way, you explained "why God care" because that is just God's way, he shows love through his caring. (makes perfect sense) correct? every step makes sense, except the same old question "suppose there is a God"

so I have to give "faith" a chance t let it grow, right? gosh, this is getting mroe confusion

[Larry_OHF]

Certainly, nobody is asked to be a blind follower.
We dohave to take some initialtive to start down the right path.
God will not call us first.
We have to be past the point of "I do not know and I do not care".
(by the way...If ignorance is bliss, I must be orgasmic!!)
When we show that we are seeking the truth, He will provide the way.
Knock and it shall be answered, seek and ye shall find...(ref. Matt 7:7)

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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.