I am not a Pacifist

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I don't make any attempt to rationalize the deaths of innocents, Moridin. I don't think we have to. I think it is far more important to avoid it in the first place.

How do you attack bin Laden with deadly force and in the process not threaten innocents? I don't think it can be avoided in this case unless we are willing to wait a very long time to pinpoint his location or hope he is handed over by the Taliban. You are against the death of innocents are you not? Then explain to me how we can possibly accomplish our mission without the threat of more dead innocents (our side or theirs)?

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

D

Originally posted by Moridin: How do you attack bin Laden with deadly force and in the process not threaten innocents? I don't think it can be avoided in this case unless we are willing to wait a very long time to pinpoint his location or hope he is handed over by the Taliban. You are against the death of innocents are you not? Then explain to me how we can possibly accomplish our mission without the threat of more dead innocents (our side or theirs)?

Moridin, the world is a fatal place. There is always, everywhere, risk to innocent life, and every one of us is going to end up dead in the end.

The trick here is to try not to take innocent life ourselves.

I do know that a much smaller force, perhaps commandos working with the aid of the northern alliance or other internal help, working to pin point Bin Laden's person, would carry a great deal less risk to innocents than the prospect of attacks from all those warplanes we are flying over there.

One single sniper could take him out.

And it would not cause the mass terrified evacuations over there, that our looming armada has caused, with all its accompanying misery. (and the next person who says the conditions were already bad over there will be slapped by a large trout -- i know that) There are many ways to kill innocents, indirectly as well as directly.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by G'kar: I would like to state that I as a pacifist, accept Dio's staement that he is not a pacifist. My non-violent veiws are rooted in my spiritual heritage, one that also teachs acceptance that not everyone will be a pacifist, or will want to be one, largely because of the basic reasons Dio stated on why that he is not one. My best friend has very similar views you do, Dio. I think its important to understand each other, even if our views seem to conflict. Also if I personally saw a child, or someone weak being attacked violently, I would not stand by and do nothing. In one situation I suffered a severe beating, while a female African American friend of mine ran for her life from some stupid racist skinheads. They had knocked her down and were kicking her outside a concert, so I jumped on ones back and bit his ear as hard as I could. Fortunatly after they had broke three ribs and cracked my skull, some not so pacifistic friends of mine saved my life. Its paradoxical I know, but my conscience rules my behavior on a daily basis, not any certain abstract philosphy. If I hadn't intervened, and my friend had been beaten, I would not advocate violent revenge, but I would advocate justice. The heat of the moment can make even a pacifist react in a less than peaceful way.

I have no problem with pacifists at all, and I understand where you are coming from.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: will be slapped by a large trout

At least we won't have to cut down the tallest tree in the forest with a......herring

Cheers Dio, I think we agree and disagree!


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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: You are just sucking up so you can get into the Illuminati Clan Hmmm . . . so far its working

Well sure I am. I thought that sucking up to the Most Illumined One was one of the rules. I dont have a handbook yet, so I have to guess based on playing Deus Ex through about 20 times. HEHEHEHE



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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I believe in the death penalty. I believe a person has every right to absolutely beat the livin' hell out of an aggressor, and to kill him if necessary, to defend the his own life, or the life of his family, or the life of a complete stranger. This IS our law in this land. I believe it is effective and just. I support the principles behind it in every way.

How unusual. I disagree with all of these articles. Good thing it wasn't the law in my land


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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Originally posted by Yorick: How unusual. I disagree with all of these articles. Good thing it wasn't the law in my land

I agree
I think it's cruel and non-solving



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I am Rikard T'Aranaxz

Almighty (shared) Leader of the OHF
Proud member of the Ancients Club

The one True Necromancer/Blade of the Laughing Hyena's

Last of the Ancient race known as the Red Fluffies
Summoner of Bunnies

"You can Run, You can Hide,
But you can never do both"

I'm Watching you...

[mistral4543]

Sorry if I appear to be intruding, but this topic is very engrossing and I just wanted to ask if it is really so wrong to kill in self-defence.

Each time I watch a movie that has aggressors stalking their prey, I keep wondering if I would have my wits about to survive such an encounter. Under any survival-of-the-fittest situation, I would have thought it perfectly natural to fight for one's life (or the life of a beloved).

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: You are just sucking up so you can get into the Illuminati Clan Hmmm . . . so far its working

Hmmm.. methinks the pumpkin is soft these days!

Seriously, Dio, I went past this a day or so ago and had to come back, the title intrigued me. I'm not a violent person by nature or desire, but I too, think that to save another life, or my own, I could be. Thank God I've never had to test that,though.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by G'kar: I would like to state that I as a pacifist, accept Dio's staement that he is not a pacifist. My non-violent veiws are rooted in my spiritual heritage, one that also teachs acceptance that not everyone will be a pacifist, or will want to be one, largely because of the basic reasons Dio stated on why that he is not one. My best friend has very similar views you do, Dio. I think its important to understand each other, even if our views seem to conflict. Also if I personally saw a child, or someone weak being attacked violently, I would not stand by and do nothing. In one situation I suffered a severe beating, while a female African American friend of mine ran for her life from some stupid racist skinheads. They had knocked her down and were kicking her outside a concert, so I jumped on ones back and bit his ear as hard as I could. Fortunatly after they had broke three ribs and cracked my skull, some not so pacifistic friends of mine saved my life. Its paradoxical I know, but my conscience rules my behavior on a daily basis, not any certain abstract philosphy. If I hadn't intervened, and my friend had been beaten, I would not advocate violent revenge, but I would advocate justice. The heat of the moment can make even a pacifist react in a less than peaceful way.

G'kar, you have my deepest respect.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."