Incomprehensible beauty... godlike perfection

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by LordKathen: I am married to a mormom.

Hmm, is that a sub-species of the common mormon?

Well, at least you didn't omit the second "m" - now that's an embarassing typo! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[LordKathen]

oops!...

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by LordKathen: Lets say that I was the first one to reply to this thread, and I said, "Wow, just look at the perfection and beuty in these snowflakes. They are just perfect. Im sorry, but anyone who says that this is not science at its best and is created through design by some supernatural power, just wants to believe in that, and does NOT want to accept the science of this beutifull world". How would you guys have responded to this? I dont think it would have been left alone. I did not flame anyone. I have no problem with the theist veiw. I am married to a mormon. You didnt just state your opinion about the beuty being design and your faith in that, you presumed what a nonbeliever wants to believe. I dont reject faith or god, there is nothing to reject. To reject something you need to have it first, right? You brought the other side of the argument into this thread first by your presumptious words. You defend your faith by denouncing our opinion and say we are just rejecting god. Well, like you said we will never fully understand each other. I am sorry for jumping to my "horse", but I did not see a reason for your words. You could have just thanked your god for this beuty and moved on. Bygons Yorich.

Lord K, if you had answered that way it wouldn't have bothered ME, and I'm a devout Christian. You know I've read lots of your posts and we've shared a laugh or 3 so I have no problem with you or your choices in life, but sometimes it seems that you're a bit 'touchy' when anyone mentions their religious beliefs here and most of the time I don't think they have the least little thought of harrassing or offending you! I know I certainly don't!

I have several friends here who are agnostic or atheist and they don't get defensive if I say something reminds me of God or religious thoughts...they just move on and so do I. I don't think Yorick's post was meant to force feed his beliefs on anyone, he was just amazed and awed and expressing his deep conviction that God exists for him. Maybe if you feel threatened or offended by such comments, it might be best to pm the poster and ask if he/she MEANT to do that with his post or if you just misinterpreted his intentions? I think you'll find that most of us have no intention of trying to change or ridicule your beliefs by simply posting what ours are. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: I think maybe that one line of Yorick's is what offended you- but seriously it might be better to just agree to disagree on this one...I read his comment as just a manifestation of his overwhelming joy at seeing something so perfect that he felt it had to be God's work, not a manifesto against anyone who disbelieves. [img]smile.gif[/img]

OK, let's all smile and enjoy those gorgeous snowflakes no matter HOW they were created!

[ 01-20-2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[LordKathen]

I agree. Like I said, bygons. I admited that I am a little defensive at times. I just feel that he oversteped just expresing his love and faith by saying he was "sorry, but...anyone...just doesnt want to believe..." He invited me in with his presumption. I will let this go. I do think I am the one being misread here. This got blown out of proportion, and totally off topic, I opologise. I will PM next time.

[Lavindathar]

Firstly, on the topic of snowflakes, they are gorgeous. As the title states, Godlike Perfection.

Secondly - I do believe in God. I think. The reason I state this, is because I believe something must have created the very first particle of bacteria, the very first piece of life. From there, I believe EVERYTHING evolved. I believe everything is down to maths (after all, science stems from maths).

Ok, everything in this world is Maths or Science. No fate. No destiny. No "it was meant to be", and "God wanted it this way". So I beleive there is something. I do not go to church except at Baptisms, Weddings and funerals and such. I only pray if someone I know dies, or I really need something to go my ways in times of depseration. I sometimes believe I'm praying to thin air, while I'm praying. But I'm keeping the door open, and hoping that I am wrong. I'm hoping that maths and science are merely concepts created by God in his allknowing wisdom.

I am sorta siding with Lord K on this one. Fair enough, people have different views on this, but I do believe sometimes people overstep their mark on their religion. Well, actually, I believe only one person does this, and sorry to say it is you Yorrick. I'm not condeming you for your faith, but I can see why Lord Kathen gets defensive, as it does rouse feelings inside of me. I can't explain the feelings, but they are more sided towards pity (of being so dependant on something that you cannot prove or substantiate) and anger (that you have to blatently shout about your faith and try and make others renounce theirs/or feel bad about being atheist). My mum is a Christian, my Dad is an atheist. I don't think religion ever comes up, they accept different sides.

I'm getting myself muddled up here. Back to the pity side. This is a two sided emotion I get. I do feel the negative side, but with this feeling of pity comes a feeling of jealousy and of envy, where I envy your happiness and devotion to God, and I'm jealous that I do not have this feeling. I wish I did. Whether then I would shoult about it or not I do not know.

I agree totally with your statement about the concept of God existing, just because he is set into the minds of people who don't even believe in him. I think that is a very good point. I think the comment about people not having experiances, hence not believing is also very good.

But I have tried to put stuff down to God. Recently, I was in a very serious car accident, with me driving (CRASH) and many have said afterwards that I should be dead. They also say my passengers were also very lucky to come out of such a high speed accident. Now, I'm thanked God for surviving, as when I look at how the roof crashed above my head, but there is still that empty feeling. Surely, it was all mathmatical that I was thrown away from the collapsing roof. I've never felt special enough to say :"Thank God, I'm alive".

Thats why I side with Lord Kathens opinions, as I can see where all his points come from. I've been very honest with my religious feelings here, and for someone who isn't religious like me, it was hard to do. Now, I am apologising NOW for any remarks I have made that are offensive, as I expect some will be. I don't intend this. Please just point them out nicely?

Thanx for reading,

Brad

[LordKathen]

Well, I was hoping someone would side with me here. I certainly have no problem at all with Yorich or his faith. That would be rediculous. His presumption of a nonbelievers thoughts or feelings was where he crossed over. I also know he wasnt targeting me personally, and I could have let it go, but, with all the things going on in the country right now concerning athieism (pledge of alegence, boy scouts, etc...) I feel it is my duty to stand up to presumption. For example, locally in our herald somebody wrote a letter to the editor in the opinions section saying how shamefull it was that an athiest could think he could posably be a leader in the boyscouts. I replied to that to, saying that im tired of the prejudice towards athiests. Now im sure Yorich intended none of this, but his comment about "grabbing tin hat" meant something.
Thank you for your words Brad. I am glad you are ok after the wreck and sorry about your car.

[Lavindathar]

NP dude.

I wasn't trying to flame Yorick in any way....or anything. Just trying to get my opinions across.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by LordKathen: I agree. Like I said, bygons. I admited that I am a little defensive at times. I just feel that he oversteped just expresing his love and faith by saying he was "sorry, but...anyone...just doesnt want to believe..." He invited me in with his presumption. I will let this go. I do think I am the one being misread here. This got blown out of proportion, and totally off topic, I opologise. I will PM next time.

No worries! I like to see your posts, but I just thought that the snowflakes were too pretty to argue about! Ok, Ok, it wasn't the snowflakes being the problem, I know. And I think I do see your point.

Lav, I'm really glad you're ok, or at least mending! That crash could have been so much worse.

[Yorick]

Kathen, just as a matter of interest, what would you need to see/sense/feel/experience to accept God existed? What do you determine as 'necessary proof'.

[Cloudbringer]

Maybe you and Lord K should take that discussion to pm or another thread Yorick. [img]smile.gif[/img] This one is all about SNOW [img]smile.gif[/img]