NZ Maori rugby team

[Yorick]

Originally posted by caleb: "Need I point out the bleedin obvious" Other people are still allowed to post in them.

Caleb, you are missing the point big time.

[Scholarcs]

It is easy for the conqueror to be blaise about this topic. You take their land, and then expect them to give up their language, their identity and their culture?

The settlement wasnt done the way I wouldve done it. I do not expect them to give up what they have now, but I do expect them to accept both our culture and hold on to theirs.

This reminds me: in primary school we had to sing the national anthem once a week. Did I refuse to sing the Maori verse? no. Did a Maori refuse to sing the english verse? yes. I just dont know what to say.

Blithely or blindly "Forgetting about race" doesn't promote harmony. That can promote resentment and frustration for the ABSORBED race. Acceptance and tolerance of difference is what promotes harmony.

Sorry I meant "forgetting about race" in the way that forgetting any past feelings that you had towards another race.

Are you learning to speak, read and write Maori? Are you living the Maori way?

Less than 5% of Maori actually speak Maori. If I could find someone I could converse with regularly in Maori perhaps I would learn it. I took french at school, because it was more enjoyable than latin or japanese, Maori wasnt even offered as an option.

No - I am not living the Maori way, i do not deny them their heritage, but they are the ones that want to live in european housing. 99.9% of Maori if you gave them a choice they would rather live in a house built using European methods with heating etc or a traditional Maori hut, then guess which they would take.

I'll be honest with you...the Maori way of life is now only visible in the museum.

It's a one way street for Europeans. Expecting the dispossessed to assimilate into their culture, and then "forget about race". Easy to say when you are the dominant race with the dominant culture.

Dominant race with dominant culture? percentage of europeans in auckland is dropping each year. it is now about 66% and continuing to fall.

Can you not see your attitude is part of the problem? It is faux acceptance. Accepting only that which seems the same. True acceptance accepts that which one KNOWS AND SEES IS DIFFERENT. The differences are what provoke TRAVEL, and DISCOURSE. The differences of various cultures provide colour, vitality and heathy variety to our world. It will be a horrible victory for blandness if and when MONOculturalism is victorious over MULTIculturalism. I have friends from many races as well. I, we celebrate and find interest in each others differences.

I hate to say it mate but if I went and asked someone to teach me about the Maori way of life they would tell me to go shove it where the sun dont shine. This is the problem, they are not proud of their culture. I am not prepared to start discussing the different cultures with people until they are proud of it. Until they have lived it.

heck i dont know what ive just written. But you go anywhere in the world and you will find people proud of their culture. But unless you are proud of it then people will forget it. I see old Pakeha trying to make young Maori proud of their culture. But they still will not accept it.

[Scholarcs]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by caleb: Next we will be seeing "maori only" threads here because that would give an opportunity to a maori guy who may not be able to break through the abundance of threads started by European posters

We have threads where members from a single country call out to each other. Dutch and Australian threads come to mind.

What's the big deal?[/QUOTE]That is defined by the country in which you live, the country which you are proud of.

It is not defined by the colour of your skin.

[Downunda]

Since when are Maoris not proud of their culture, Scolarcs? Channel one on sunday mornings is nothing but maori culture.

I mean sure they're over represented in all the bad statistics concerning literacy, crime, health etc... but this is exactly what Yorick is saying, they were (some may argue that they still are) an oppressed people, thus, they need all the help they can get. *trying not to sound too patronising* [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Yorick: We have threads where members from a single country call out to each other. Dutch and Australian threads come to mind. What's the big deal?

Without getting involved in the Maori debate I would say that these threads are based on nationalities rather than race - as are national football teams.

[The Hierophant]

From what I have seen in our country, Maori are raised in European-style institutions whilst not recieving the whole-hearted acceptance of European cultural identity from the society which has in and of itself removed any viable alternative through law and legislation. Maori land and fishing rights are coveted in such a way as to exploit financial potential, whilst the traditional, pre-Pakeha settlement Maori lifestyle has been by and large neglected by the conventional New Zealand social system. Those of biological Maori descent are essentially 'paid off' in terms of small financial benefits intended as compensation for a complete sacrifice of cultural identity. The predominantly tribal nature of traditional Maori culture (consisting of independant tribes living in largely self-sufficient Pas and Maraes) is expected, nay demanded to fit itself into the largely corporate, centralized system of New Zealand government.
In Dunedin (Scholarcs and Downunda will know where Dunedin is [img]smile.gif[/img] ) there is a Marae out on the Peninsula (Otakau by name, hence the Anglicized version 'Otago') where the children are raised in traditional Maori culture in traditional Maori language, yet with European tools and technologies. The children raised there cannot speak English at primary-school age (we visited the marae in primary school when I was about 9 or 10, none of us white kids could communicate with the maori children there [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and the values of traditional maori are preserved. However, this seems to be a rare case of practical maori cultural endurance (allowed largely by the isolated geography of the Otago Peninsula), and on a wider scale indigenous people of our country do not have such a strong, tangible cultural foundation on which they can fall back. They are not totally accepted by the pakeha population, yet have no sense of community of their own.

And after all that, comes my point: The maori rugby team serves a valid purpose for providing maori with a sense of community pride that they cannot find in a predominatly white-controlled consumer society (as Yorick and Downunda have been saying for ages [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Whilst rugby is in and of itself a product of European sporting cultural values, the maori-exclusive team allows for a largely under-represented (culturally, not necessarily financially or legally) percentage of the New Zealand population to develope communal-contact, a sense of cultural identity, and a bit of athletic satisfaction. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Downunda]

Thanks dude, very well written [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Donut: Without getting involved in the Maori debate I would say that these threads are based on nationalities rather than race - as are national football teams.

And as is the Maori nation. They do, as I said, have a treaty with the Queen.

What is race other than a nationality developed and refined over a longer period?

Can anyone tell me which of the four macro races the Maori are supposed to fit into? Caucasoid? Mongoloid? Australoid? Negroid?

Or are they a blend of a couple? The Maoris I've known haven't known.

One of my co-writers in Oz is a Maori, and one of the most successful female session vocalists there. She was "first call"
for twenty years or so.

She had a most interesting theory as to the Maori origin.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: From what I have seen in our country, Maori are raised in European-style institutions whilst not recieving the whole-hearted acceptance of European cultural identity from the society which has in and of itself removed any viable alternative through law and legislation. Maori land and fishing rights are coveted in such a way as to exploit financial potential, whilst the traditional, pre-Pakeha settlement Maori lifestyle has been by and large neglected by the conventional New Zealand social system. Those of biological Maori descent are essentially 'paid off' in terms of small financial benefits intended as compensation for a complete sacrifice of cultural identity. The predominantly tribal nature of traditional Maori culture (consisting of independant tribes living in largely self-sufficient Pas and Maraes) is expected, nay demanded to fit itself into the largely corporate, centralized system of New Zealand government. In Dunedin (Scholarcs and Downunda will know where Dunedin is [img]smile.gif[/img] ) there is a Marae out on the Peninsula (Otakau by name, hence the Anglicized version 'Otago') where the children are raised in traditional Maori culture in traditional Maori language, yet with European tools and technologies. The children raised there cannot speak English at primary-school age (we visited the marae in primary school when I was about 9 or 10, none of us white kids could communicate with the maori children there [img]smile.gif[/img] ) and the values of traditional maori are preserved. However, this seems to be a rare case of practical maori cultural endurance (allowed largely by the isolated geography of the Otago Peninsula), and on a wider scale indigenous people of our country do not have such a strong, tangible cultural foundation on which they can fall back. They are not totally accepted by the pakeha population, yet have no sense of community of their own. And after all that, comes my point: The maori rugby team serves a valid purpose for providing maori with a sense of community pride that they cannot find in a predominatly white-controlled consumer society (as Yorick and Downunda have been saying for ages [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Whilst rugby is in and of itself a product of European sporting cultural values, the maori-exclusive team allows for a largely under-represented (culturally, not necessarily financially or legally) percentage of the New Zealand population to develope communal-contact, a sense of cultural identity, and a bit of athletic satisfaction. [img]smile.gif[/img]

What a great post. Well said bro. Thankyou. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Donut]

Originally posted by Yorick: And as is the Maori nation. They do, as I said, have a treaty with the Queen. What is race other than a nationality developed and refined over a longer period?

But the British nation is made up of a multitude of races and will never be one distinct race.

The word 'nation' is used to denote a Nation State when describing sports teams.