06-17-2002, 02:51 PM | #31 | |
Fzoul Chembryl
Join Date: August 30, 2001
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Doctors get paid more than in any other nation, but have their own insurance premiums that are through the roof. Why? The culture of litigation prevalent in the United "it's always somebody elses fault" States. I've been told that less individuals are taking up medicine, and that if not addressed, a doctor shortage will exist in the near future. As far as medical advances, Australia is also a leader John. Yet we have universally subsidised health care. It amazes me that there are people here who oppose the rich subsidising the poors health care at all, let alone an increase in line with other western nations.[/QUOTE]I fully agree with the litigation problem. I've seen more stupid things come from fear of litigation than I care to. Removing "dangerous" things from playgrounds. Dropping speed limits on county roads because they might get sued if someone is in an accident. Litigation for medical problems caused by accidents is quite lucrative. I myself was sued for an accident almost seven years after it happened for an elusive back problem. The only reason I was sued was because I had insurance and they found a litigation lawyer. It was settled out of court for a large sum ($50,000) by my insurance company.
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06-17-2002, 03:21 PM | #32 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: June 17, 2002
Location: NY
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Whether science is or is not a religion is based on the structure of it in itself.
Religions, namely christianity during the enlightenment, told you to believe it, even if you couldn't explain the nature of it. This was during a time when old teachings were being torn asunder, like the notion that Earth was the Center of the universe. Science told you to believe only what made sense, if it didn't make sense, pick it apart until it did. Morality shouldn't interfere in science, before, when scientists cared about religious beliefs, they didn't disect humans, which after doing so proved numerous ancient Greek medicinal practices false. If science can't explain something, it calls what it does know theory.
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06-17-2002, 03:43 PM | #33 |
Zartan
Join Date: July 18, 2001
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Science has already confirmed some ideas rooted in Mystic religions. An excellent book that links these ideas is "The Tao of Physics".
For Ages mystics have espouted the idea that matter isnt really a bunch of seperate things, but is fundmentally energy vibrating at different frequencies giving rise to various forms and elements. Also, all matter and energy is interconnected on an unseen level. The science of quantum physics has theories that confirm these age-old ideas and more. Im of the thinking that science and religion coexist and intermingle. Both have their place in human affairs. Science is not religion though, Science has practices and ideology unique to science (ever see a scientist/tel-evanglist?) just as religion has its own uniquness. They are connected though...
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06-17-2002, 04:15 PM | #34 | |
Very Mad Bird
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I was trying to say in my post that Religion uses science, and some parts of some religions ARE science. "Science" being the pursuit of knowledge. Fair call about the technology issue Claude, but that's the line I was taking. I don't blame science for the bomb, but then I don't blame Christ for the crusades. It seems some here have double statndards though, applying one rule to science and another to religion. Simply the employing the concept say, "Theology is not science" is itself applying a subjectivity as to the nature of knowledge. If the pursuit of knowledge is ammoral and valueless, then there is no way to measure the relative impotance of the various fields. Theology is no more or less important than Psychology, Geology, Biology, or the study of ant mating rituals. Do we cordon off the field of archeology and say "Well because it's not dealing with human life it's not a science". No, knowledge is knowledge, and there are myriad ways to gather information. |
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06-17-2002, 04:16 PM | #35 | |
Very Mad Bird
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06-17-2002, 04:18 PM | #36 | |
Very Mad Bird
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We are in agreement possibly for the first time. [img]smile.gif[/img] The space program has been one of the more rewarding government endeavors. I think the tech funding for NASA is way too low. I suppose if man actually ever manages to transplant a population off the earth that would cause some problems for those who follow the Apocrypha and the book of revelations.[/QUOTE]I criticised SETI funding amounts, not NASA MagiK. |
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06-17-2002, 04:29 PM | #37 | |
Very Mad Bird
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As far as putting the leaders in together, these are leaders viewed as initiators of war for various reasons. I'm not commenting on the justification of the said wars, but on the wars themselves. One could actually argue Hussein had a case against Kuwait, who were strangling Iraq on the oil market (an economic war). One has to wonder why Britain created Kuwait at all, instead of merging it with the newly created Iraq. Oh yes, it was because huge amounts of oil existed there right? Churches as opposed to SETI, give back to the community. They provide various free services such as counselling, motivational lectures, marriage guidance, career guidance for kids, musical education, literary dissection training, clothing and food for the homeless, and a sense of community to the kinless, that are reliant on DONATIONS to be perpetuated. If someone gives to a tele-eveangelist, they do so out of their own free will, not legal taxation, or imposed and perpetuated addiction as in the case of tobbacco. |
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06-17-2002, 08:37 PM | #38 |
Baaz Draconian
Join Date: October 11, 2001
Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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Yorick, I wish we lived in the same city-- I'd love to spend an afternoon somewhere chatting and sharing ideas. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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06-17-2002, 08:56 PM | #39 |
Ironworks Atomic Moderator
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Well back to the original topic, i.e, Science and/or Religion:
Well the subject of science and religion kinda go hand in hand to me. of course it always depends on each individual person, some believe one thing, others believe something else. But for me, I feel that science in many way shows that there are things out there than cannot be seen, but exist. I mean, who discovered the existence of air? oxygen? I can't see it, but obviously it is there, I breath it in constantly, it keeps me alive, yet I do not see it. When a person catches a cold or a flu, and sneezes or coughs, I cannot see the billions of germs floating about, I cannot see them land on a doorknob, when another person touches that doorknob, I don't see how the germ sticks to that person's hands, and I cannot see when they rub their nose or eye and how it enters into their body, ultimately making them sick as well. But it happens. Lots of things happen that we cannot see. There is a whole different world out there, a microscopic world, that we cannot even see. So for me personally, I am never one to scoff at what I cannot see, and say if it is not visually in front of my face and obvious, it therefore cannot exist. No way, I'd be an ignorant fool to do so. So I believe in God. I believe in a creator that I cannot see. And not just because of what I typed above, but also because if you look at this planet with a keen eye, you realize the synchronicity (word?) of things. Not only were us humans created, but look at how this planet was created for us. Water we need and water we are given, not only by lakes and oceans, but by rain as well. Trees and plantlife breath in carbon dioxide, and breath out oxygen, we humans breath in oxygen, and breath out carbon dioxide, perfection. Trees also give us shade in the summer, and homes for the birds, who eat bugs and mosquitoes. Worms live underground to aireate the soil, which helps plants live. This entire planet has given us so much to live on, to use and grow on. What keeps your automobile driving eh? Comes from the earth. Aspirin, got a headache? Comes from a tree. Many diseases and ailments have been cured from ingredients found on mother earth. All the answers are given to us, all the essentials, it is just up to us to realize and find them. Is this a coincidence? I say this to those that may think that humans were made in some cosmic burb random thing. If that were so, then how come we got so lucky with Earth, which supplies so much for us to live and prosper. So in summary, Science? Yes! Religion? Yes! And for those of you who don't believe in God, this is just my personal feelings, and I respect everyone's stance, whether it be athiest or another belief system or some other religion or no religion at all. This is simply my personal thoughts on the subject. [img]smile.gif[/img] |
06-17-2002, 08:58 PM | #40 | |
Very Mad Bird
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