If I was a powergamer...

[Dave G]

... which I'm not (well, most of me isn't!), what type of six-character party would I want to create? I'd think a magic heavy party (5 characters with some levels in a spell-casting class). This would be a party meant to go through the main game, the expansions, and HoF.

There would need to be one character that we shall call the "meatshield". Paladin seems like a good choice to use the Pale Justice, but a fighter has a better HP die. Paladin's also have lay-on-hands and cure disease, which are very good bonuses.

A pure druid seems like a good idea as well, given all the useful druid spells and the shifting. But maybe it should be multi-classed with a fighter?

An elf mage-thief sounds like a necessary class. As does an elvin cleric/fighter.

Would a party be useful here? The goal is the have characters that are pulling their weight the ENTIRE game. I'm not too familiar with bards though. I think Deekin in NWN and that 'spoony bard' in FF4 really turned me off to the class :/

I'm just going to throw this out there:
Paladin
Fighter/mage
Fighter/cleric
mage/thief
Druid
Mage

I haven't even considered race yet. I opted for a single class druid and mage to make sure I have as many spell slots as possible by the end (I'd imagine you don't reach max level after 1 run of HoF, correct?).

So, please correct everything I just said.

[Aerich]

You got most of it right. Casters is where it's at, but IMO truly powerful parties have to have all, or at least 5 out of 6, characters combining magic with durability (AC and HP), above-average melee skills (good Thaco and more than one attack/round) and excellent ranged attacks - that means warrior classes.

Therefore, avoid pure-class characters, except for the paladin - and perhaps bard if you go that route. You will max out single-class characters on HoF, even ones with high XP requirements, like paladins. In my HoF game from scratch (the party starts HoF at lvl 1), the paladin was at lvl 29 before starting TotL, and the bard maxed out on Burial Isle. Note, a paladin will have the same HP as a fighter - the only downsides of a paladin vs a fighter are experience requirements (won't be a problem for you) and lack of 5-star specialization (2 stars max for the pally) - but both negatives are outweighed by the paladin's extra abilities including spellcasting.

If you want to do a regular run through the game then go to HoF, consider playing on Insane for double the normal XP. The downside of this is that it makes HoF (at least the first couple of chapters) too easy. Exploding scores of HoF undead in the Vale of Shadows with a paladin's turn undead skill gets kind of boring.

Also consider using one high-level dual class character, even though I know you said you want your characters pulling their weight throughout the entire game. A Fighter/Mage dual class that goes to at least fighter level 13 is a terror on the battlefield when it regains its fighter levels at mage lvl 14. It's also not any more of a liability after a few levels than a pure mage, and it will retain its fighters HP during its time as a mage, reducing its vulnerability.

An elven fighter/cleric is a bad idea if you are really going to powergame it. The -1 Con of an elf means this character won't be as good of a melee fighter as some other races - the +1 Dex only helps that character' ranged attacks, not AC. Go for a gnome, because they can buy a special helm. A dwarf is fine too, because of the saving throw bonuses. You could also make the F/C a half-elf R/C instead, gaining the ranger's class-based extra melee attack per round with no shield equipped.

To sum up the changes I'd make to your party listed above, make the druid a F/D multiclass, and make the pureclass mage a high level dual class F/M. The F/C should be a gnome, dwarf, half-elf, or a R/C. I'm not overly happy about the lack of a fighter class with the M/T, but you do need thieving in there somewhere. As an alternative, you could dual the M/T too, going to about thief lvl 9. One of the three mages could also be a specialist - illusionist is probably the best choice. You could use a gnome illusionist/thief to replace the M/T, or use a gnome fighter/illusionist, or dual class the high level fighter into an illusionist.

Be warned that with three mage-spell casters, you will have to plan out who gets what. For example, there are only two Stoneskin scrolls available, so one of your characters won't have it.

[ 02-19-2006, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Ultra Marine]

I've played this game twice this year and I tell you the mages isn't that good compared to a druid. Drop the pure mage and put in a bard (who also can access mage spells). Drop the mage/thief and put in a Fighter/Thief and give him a bow and a 2hand weapon.

Given a limit of approx 4-6 million exp, you will have double the quantity of lvl4-lvl7 spells compared to a mc druid. It really depends how you play. For me, druids are primary caster as opposed to a cleric and mage dc or mc. So pure druids are cool. Besides, if your druid is wearing plate armour and if you shape shift to a bear, then the bear's belly will get stuck in the armor and that's why the bear moves so slow.

[Dave G]

Alright, how about this party I just created...

Human Paladin (Large and Great Swords)
Str 18/50
Dex 14
Con 18
Int 3
Wis 18
Cha 18

Gnome Illusionist/Thief (Bow and Dagger)
Str 12
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 19
Wis 12
Cha 3

Half-Elf Fighter/Mage (Bow and Large Sword)
Str 18/24
Dex 18
Con 18
Int 18
Wis 13
Cha 3

Half-Elf Fighter/Cleric (Hammer and Mace)
Str 18/82
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 4
Wis 18
Cha 3

Half-Elf Bard (Bow and Crossbow)
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 18

Half-Elf Fighter/Druid (Missle Weapons and Quarter Staff)
Str 18/78
Dex 12
Con 18
Int 4
Wis 18
Cha 18

[Ultra Marine]

I'm not racist but ....

Why not Gnome or Elf F/Mage? Both have more advantage compare to Half-Elf.

Why not a H-Elf R/C? If not, a dwarf F/C or would be more suitable with higher cons.

IMHO, all fighter classes should get a ranged weapon.

[Aerich]

Well, it's not quite a powergamer's party yet. You need 18 Dex (or better) with every character, because it affects your AC and ranged attacks.

So I would make the following stat alterations:

Paladin - 18 Dex, and drop Wis to the pally minimum (13). Strangely, you will still get access to 6th lvl clerical spells despite a 13 Wis. This works for paladins, but not for clerics.

Illusionist/Thief - decent, no changes necessary. I don't quite understand the 13 Wis, though. If you are inclined to re-roll this character, you could drop the Wis down and put extra points in Str.

Fighter/Mage - fine. Too bad the Str isn't higher, but it won't make any difference if this character is mostly an archer. If you put this character into melee, make sure you cast Strength for added power.

Fighter/Cleric - sorry, 16 Dex is not enough. Compared to 18 Dex, a 16 means your AC is 2 points worse. Seriously consider a R/C.

Bard - get that Con up to 16 for +2 HP/lvl up to lvl 10. You also need at least Str 12 to use longbows. Buy the spell Friends and give it to your bard for when you need to buy expensive items. If you have extra stat points to allocate, consider putting your Wis up to 13 - there is a bard-only item that requires Wis 13.

Fighter/Druid - with 12 Dex, your AC is 4 points worse than if the character had 18 Dex. If you want this character to be able to fight in melee and contribute with ranged weapons, 18 Dex is required. You don't need 18 Cha with this character, as talking/buying should be covered by the bard and/or paladin. I'm sure you're having trouble rolling up this character, so drop the Cha down to the lowest it will go (15). Dex, Con, and Wis should all be maxed out, Int can be minimized, and Cha can be minimized as much as the class will allow. If you have to, Str can be dropped, as there are plenty of potions and some Str-increasing items later on in the game.

[Ultra Marine]

Originally posted by Aerich: ... Fighter/Mage - fine. Too bad the Str isn't higher, but it won't make any difference if this character is mostly an archer. If you put this character into melee, make sure you cast Strength for added power...

Off topic ...

Does str gives bonuses to using a bow? If not then a thief9 dual to fighter would be a very good archer.

[Aerich]

No, bows and crossbows do not give a strength bonus.

I'm really not sold on the dual class fighter-to-thief. Giving up those HP just feels wrong. If doing a HoF game with no shortage of XP, a multiclass F/T is far better.

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Dave G: Paladin seems like a good choice to use the Pale Justice, but a fighter has a better HP die. Paladin's also have lay-on-hands and cure disease, which are very good bonuses.

Huh? Paladin and Fighter get the same Hit Dice. Paladins get spells and Pale Justice, Fighters get Grandmastery.

Here's my UPP:

Human Paladin
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist
Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief
Half-Elf Fighter/Druid
Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger
Half-Elf Bard

3 arcane magic users, 3 divine (if you count the Paladin). Every character can tank if need be, except the Bard. Use the FMT primarily as an archer/support spellcaster.

[wanderon]

Hmmm my last party was pretty powergamey then...

This is in the area of Dorns Deep with two badges in our packs...

Pally 11 (18-92/18/18/6/15/18 )
Gnome F 9/T 12 (18-82/18/18/12/12/8 )
HE C 10/R 9 (18-32/18/16/10/18/8 )
HE F 9/D 12 (18-25/18/16/7/18/16)
Elf F 9/M 11 (18-96/19/16/18/8/8 )
HE bard 11 (18-18/16/17/10/15) (added later)

They are all MC rather DC obviously and the bard was added as an afterthought and I can't recall where- I suspect either someplace in Dragons Arse or the Severed Hand.

The gnome F/T BTW is turning out to be the best tank in the bunch...