Teens Beat Retarded Man To Death

[Horatio]

Just like to jump in with my comment:

Kaltia from my side of the table it seems that you have got your wires crossed somewhere. Just because you go to a grammar school does NOT mean you are at all wealthy. I went to one, and myself, my brothers and my sister have had to work our bloody hardest to get away from the life our parents lived.
Also, it really does matter about homelife. Now Kat, you are pretty intelligent (apparently [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) and so I would expect you not to go out and mug people because your family is having difficulties. But many kids don't have that intelligence, and so they think they are not going to be caught. Now, my dad buggered off when my oldest brother was in his mid-teens, and it really shook him up bad . Because of this, he now has a criminal record for thieving and vandalism. He has done quite well with his life, he works for a computer firm in Dublin, but he came REALLY close to a total breakdown.

Not one to go off topic, I'd like to express my disgust at the crime in question.

[Sigmar]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by Kaltia: Quote: Originally posted by realbinky: Notice a woman named Claudia SMITH was the mother of a kid named BONNER and another named ADAMS. 2 Fathers that are not still around? Messed up home life, anyone? Not an excuse, but an observation.

And? That's a pathetic excuse; I've got a messed up homelife but I don't bloody go and kill a retarded man![/QUOTE]But isn't the current mess of your home life rather recent? I thought this all crashed down on you recnetly.
I agree with RB that is part of the problem.. Nuclear families with at least one parent home with the kids all the time are the most stable and safe. Not perfect mind you...just the best that has been devised so far.

I will note that the small town where my kids are has near zero crime and no delinquents running around in packs...why? curfews, nuclear families, harsh punishments (spankings are accepted norms and smacking your kid upside the head in the grocery store is approved of) and strict religious upbringings....and the fact that there are only about 500 people in three townships [img]smile.gif[/img] ...just my observations. [/QUOTE]I come from a broken home with its fair share of problems, the only way of life I've known (since birth) and I'm not doing any stuff like that. Which is why I'm inclined to disagree with your statement. Sure there are many factors which affect the outcome of an individual and his or her attitude towards life, ultimately it is the person's choice to do something.

Sure they might have a dulled sense of wrong and rightbut kids like these little pieces of camel dung knew what the hell they were doing. There are a HUGE number of broken homes in Gibraltar and the crime-rate is extremely low. The last murder occured in 1998 and the one before that some time in the 1980s, of course there are other crimes but the severe and most significant ones in the eyes of many (such as rape and assualt)are very rarely heard here. In fact the pattern that people of my age and myself are noticing are that the troublemaking individuals present within in our schools and the same people who are responsible for a number of crimes in Gibraltar come from a nuclear family, are spoilt (given enough money to buy a kitted our Ferrari at the age of 18 by their parents who will willingly conbtribute whenever to their "little angels" bank accounts whenever they need it)and think they own the world.

All the stuff about ther blame being contributed to the fact that they come from a broken home is unreasonable in my opinion. It might have been a contributing factor to their life of crime but I won't accept that they went and killed a mentally disabled person (even if they didn't mean to kill him, which I doubt, they still intended to inflict significant harm) simply because their father left them at a young age or something like that.

By the way the content of this article truly disgusts me. I fear that the downspiral of morality within western society is reaching a point where eventually crime's going to have a significant influence on our cultures. I hope humanity can get its act together before it's too late.

[ 04-09-2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Sigmar ]

[Dude 77]

its just pathetic what some people well do
just sad and pathetic!

[Bardan the Slayer]

Originally posted by MagiK: Quote: Originally posted by Kaltia: Quote: Originally posted by realbinky: Notice a woman named Claudia SMITH was the mother of a kid named BONNER and another named ADAMS. 2 Fathers that are not still around? Messed up home life, anyone? Not an excuse, but an observation.

And? That's a pathetic excuse; I've got a messed up homelife but I don't bloody go and kill a retarded man![/QUOTE]But isn't the current mess of your home life rather recent? I thought this all crashed down on you recnetly.
I agree with RB that is part of the problem.. Nuclear families with at least one parent home with the kids all the time are the most stable and safe. Not perfect mind you...just the best that has been devised so far.

I will note that the small town where my kids are has near zero crime and no delinquents running around in packs...why? curfews, nuclear families, harsh punishments (spankings are accepted norms and smacking your kid upside the head in the grocery store is approved of) and strict religious upbringings....and the fact that there are only about 500 people in three townships [img]smile.gif[/img] ...just my observations. [/QUOTE]I would disagree with the smacking the kids. In my extensive experience with the scum that surround me, the ones that are the worst behaved are the ones that get hit the most. Believe me, I've lived in s***holes for all of my 24 years and seen every type of parent - foro the fantastic ones like mine, that never laid a finger on me, never threatened me with hell, yet brought up a good, law-abiding citizen, to the shouting, screaming fools who smack their kids every time they do so much as speak out of turn, and do so harsly and often.

Without exception, the worst behaved kids and the arsonists and drug addicts I live around were the ones that I saw being smacked the most. one might argue that they were being smacked because they were bad, but my experience teaches me that they are bad because they are physically punished. Violence breeds violence.

Spanking a child only serves to desensitise them to violence, teach them that it is an acceptable way of making someone else do your bidding, and an acceptable use of physical superiority and authority. If a person smacks their child in public, they shouldn't be surprised when their child starts smacking other people in public.

[Thorfinn]

I have to agree with MagiK. I really doubt that the message you learn from spankings is violence begets violence. The key, IMO, is to have a consistent, clearly articulated set of rules, and clear understanding of the consequences of breaking those rules. This is as old as Hammurabi posting the laws on the gates of the city so that none would have an excuse for not knowing the law.

If the spankings are arbitrary and capricious, of course they do more harm than good, and if the child is too young to understand the idea of rules, a spanking is rather useless. But once the kid is old enough to know right from wrong, and once you have communicated both your rules and your punishment and reward system, I really don't believe spanking does any harm at all.

IMO, the problem arises whenever kids do not have a clear understanding of what is expected of them, and particularly when they do not have to bear the consequences of violating those expectations. As long as there is someone around to blame it on the parents, or the video games, or TV, or the violent culture, or the prevalence of guns, or whatever, kids (and adults, for that matter) will be happy to grab onto that instead of accepting the blame for their own actions.

[Gangrell]

Not all kids neccesarily Bardan, I live in a small town with kids that who most would call "punks" because they think they're bad***. I know they don't get beat because I know nearly everyone in my school and the biggest reason is because their parents don't really care what they do or what happens to them. If they aren't brought up right, they can be lead into the wrong crowds and then, too, grow up to be violent or mentally psychotic. It's a shame the world works, it really is.

[ 04-09-2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Gangrell ]

[Attalus]

I spank my kids, but very rarely and usually just a spat on the wrist. Well, not Piestrider, but he really is an abnormally good kid, besides, he is almost as tall as I am. More often, the threat of, and use of, "time out" or the withdrawal of priviledges and treats seem to work the best for Will.

[Bahamut]

it really depends on the situation of the spanking thing. now whenever i hear these type of stories all that enter my head are "stupid parents"

sometimes, kids need really a little, even just a little "roughening up" because at some point they really go off track... but there is a difference between mauling the kid and spanking the kid for a reason. and the parents should justify this, and the parents should also make up for this since the kids will too. now if the kid goes ballistic it is not their fault, but the parent's fault who didn't at least try to udnerstand the kid. spanking always happens for a reason... if the kids do not see this anymore than they wouldn't need any excuse also would they?

[Kakero]

I'm in favour that kids be spank whenever they did something wrong. If they are not spank, they'll think it is the right thing to do and they'll keep on doing it. Tender, loving and caring may work but not always, tough disciplin is still needed to show the kids there is a limit in what they can do. However for me, kids should only be spank when they can start understanding why they are spanked. I mean it's useless you keep on spanking a kid and the kid don't even know why you spank him.