Prohibition Laws

[Night Stalker]

Prohibition, proactive, preventitive laws ..... I say they don't work. Outlawing guns doesn't prevent murders.
Outlawing drugs does not stop people from getting high.
Calling someone a law breaker that forgets to put on a helmet or seat belt is just rediculus (sp?). None of these laws actually prevent the bad things that we would like to see end from happening. They just get politicians re-elected. Having them on the books opens the public to abuse from police. The police would move to have more laws like these and less restrictions to conduct searches (Carnivour ....) all in the name of safety, security, or "for the children".

Society just doesn't like the fact that it can not legislate the bad things that happen to good people out of existence. It can act though once these bad things happen. It's bad to outlaw drugs. It make criminals of pot smoking teens, and creates a black market. The people *will* have their vices. I don't condone drugs, but I don't want them outlawed. Why not tax them and make money. On the other hand .... go ahead and slam the intoxicated/high driver. Fire or even jail the stoned construction worker. The activities that people do after using are what's dangerous, not getting high in of itself. Magik made a good point in another post .... we don't need gevernment to legislate against self stupidity. Just where that stupidity *directly* impacts other people. The same can be said for guns. Outlawing guns will never prevent murders. It won't even slow the psycopaths down. Outlawing guns does prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves. By the way, I don't think the general public should be armed ... there are just waaaayyyyy too many idiots out there. I just don't want the freedom to own them taken away.

I'll post a conclusion later ...

I of course completely agree. Especialy about the Helmet and seatbelt laws which were just enacted to satisfy the Special interest group known collectively as the "Insurance Racket" err Industry..yeah industry...not racket [img]smile.gif[/img] Outlawing guns only insures that outlaws have them and that honest decent people do not...not to mention breaking the second ammendment, and its supporting documents the Washington letters and Jeffersons writings. (Jefferson by the way was the guy who wrote the constitution and pretty much weeded the first 10 ammendments down from roughly 400 or so). Guns are and have been part of American Culture from the very beginning of the country. What others do about it in their countrys is their business but please do not presume to tell us what we should do with them here.

[ 10-07-2002, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Chewbacca]

I agree.
Historically, Prohibition is a failure, which is why the drug war continues to fail and suck money away from proactive things like education and healthcare.

Intelligent, healthy beings ought to have the right to do drugs, but should be wary not to let the drugs do them.

[LennonCook]

Most drugs can`t be taxed because they are unprocessed materials. If they were made legal, the government wouldn`t make any money out of them.
And any fool knows that that`s all the government cares about.

So, they can`t make money out of it- what are they going to do - let someone else make money out of it and get away with it ?? I think not.
They make them illegal, and suddenly they don`t have to worry about them anymore.

Or do they ??
Outlawing something will serve to increase it`s value. You can`t get it at as many places, there is almost no competition, so you can charge practically whatever you want and those people who use them constantly will still buy them. Using this logic, you will get more money.
Until the government decides to legalise it.

So, you have to take measures to stop it from being legalised. What are you going to do ?? How about you pay the government. You are getting more than three times as much as any legal retailer would, so why not give the government alot more than what they would get in taxes (if they *could* tax it) ??
Suddenly, you`re making money from it; the government is making money from it; so why would it be legalised ??
Were it legalised, neither you nor the goverment would make any money from it. The government wants to make money. So, the government is getting the best deal they possibly can- why on earth would they legalise it ??

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by LennonCook: Most drugs can`t be taxed because they are unprocessed materials. If they were made legal, the government wouldn`t make any money out of them. And any fool knows that that`s all the government cares about. So, they can`t make money out of it- what are they going to do - let someone else make money out of it and get away with it ?? I think not. They make them illegal, and suddenly they don`t have to worry about them anymore. Or do they ?? Outlawing something will serve to increase it`s value. You can`t get it at as many places, there is almost no competition, so you can charge practically whatever you want and those people who use them constantly will still buy them. Using this logic, you will get more money. Until the government decides to legalise it. So, you have to take measures to stop it from being legalised. What are you going to do ?? How about you pay the government. You are getting more than three times as much as any legal retailer would, so why not give the government alot more than what they would get in taxes (if they *could* tax it) ?? Suddenly, you`re making money from it; the government is making money from it; so why would it be legalised ?? Were it legalised, neither you nor the goverment would make any money from it. The government wants to make money. So, the government is getting the best deal they possibly can- why on earth would they legalise it ??

Perhaps because it is the right thing to do in the spirit of freedom and equality?

In reality the main people making big money from drug prohibition are the same kind of people who profited during alcohol prohibition, except in todays world it's not just violent greedy criminals and corrupt cops/politicians, but terrorists as well.

[Night Stalker]

Tobacco is a natural substance and they manage to tax that. I just see a problem with government overstepping it's bounds and creating laws that open opportunity for abusing public freedom and privacy all in the name of protecting the public.

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by MagiK: I of course completely agree. Especialy about the Helmet and seatbelt laws which were just enacted to satisfy the Special interest group known collectively as the "Insurance Racket" err Industry..yeah industry...not racket [img]smile.gif[/img] Outlawing guns only insures that outlaws have them and that honest decent people do not...not to mention breaking the second ammendment, and its supporting documents the Washington letters and Jeffersons writings. (Jefferson by the way was the guy who wrote the constitution and pretty much weeded the first 10 ammendments down from roughly 400 or so). Guns are and have been part of American Culture from the very beginning of the country. What others do about it in their countrys is their business but please do not presume to tell us what we should do with them here.

Don't get me started on the Insurance Racket ..... I live in NJ. This state is not run by politicos anymore, but by Labor Unions, Insurance COs, and ... "the five families". Of course I'm only joking on that last referance and have no proof. But everywhere you turn in NJ someone is reaching into your pocket with legal justification to do so (taxes, tolls, DMV, insurance, taxes, insurance, contracting costs, Toys R Us - need those helmets!, DMV ...) At least with Tony Soprano, everyone involved understands that it is a shakedown - eventhough it still sucks. With the State, you're never quite sure how you are getting screwed, you just know you are.

Thomas Jefferson also said that there should be a revolution every 20 yrs so one system doesn't get too entrenched in power. You can see THAT going over real well with the "Leaders" in Washington.

As for the Special Intrests, take away campain dollars, and the gov would slowly return to the People where it belongs. Fat chance in that happening. Guess we won't see a McCain presidency.

[ 10-07-2002, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Night Stalker ]

[Azred]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: In reality the main people making big money from drug prohibition are the same kind of people who profited during alcohol prohibition, except in todays world it's not just violent greedy criminals and corrupt cops/politicians, but terrorists as well.

Too true. The 1920s helped turn loosely organized street thugs into a force that has endured to this day.

If the government made drugs legal, they could set up some import tarriffs (money!), make dealers be licensed (more money), and set up product quality standards and fine those whose product is substandad (even more money). [img]tongue.gif[/img]
In fact, if the government altered the rules so that only they could sell drugs, they would most likely never suffer a budget defecit again. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

That is too weird and will never happen. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[StigTC]

I usually dont post in something that's likely to get heated, but here goes.

Starting with Night Stalker: You're wrong, it has been proven time upon time that by prohibiting and fining people for doing something, they will eventually stop doing it, how many fines do you think it takes for someone to realize that the seatbelt isn't such a great evil.

About the gun control, it might not stop all criminals from carrying guns, but it will stop some of them, and how many do you need to stop when it's human lives we're trying to save. For the record, I dont believe in total abolishment of guns either, but if you dont have a use for it, why should you have one, buy an alarm in stead.

MagiK: Do you honestly believe that you can run the country on a set of base rules that are more than 200 years old (the constitution is that old right) with-out ammending them every once in a while.

Chewbacca: Historically, countries didn't have the means to enforce theese laws.

LennonCook: Sure they can be taxed, it's income just like everything else, they just need to change tax rates according to what you makie your money on.

Final note: I dont think anyone should be allowed to sell anything that will kill you as fast as drugs. And NightStalker and Magik, when reading you post my mind was ringing the anarchy bell with a sledge hammer.

[Azred]

Originally posted by StigTC: I usually dont post in something that's likely to get heated, but here goes. Final note: I dont think anyone should be allowed to sell anything that will kill you as fast as drugs.

What good is a discussion if it doesn't have the potential to become heated? [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

So no one should be able to sell cars or motorcycles, yes? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img]