International insults.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by Prime2U: Nope there are more females than males in the world. It has to do with longer lifespans and such.

Wasn't there something about 52% of the babies born being males and 48% females because the Y chromosome is smaller or some such?

[250]

Hugh, Hugh, Hugh, would you mind generalize these people for me please?

Chinese
Japanese
Korean

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Kaz: Wasn't there something about 52% of the babies born being males and 48% females because the Y chromosome is smaller or some such?

Actually, you're correct, its true that more male babies are born than female ones. Dont know why. But that tends to even itself out pretty quickly. As a general rule, its the men that go off and get themselves killed, either in wars, by putting themselves in harms way, or, letting the occasional stupid fraternity prank get out of hand. So, when you average the birth/death rates, and compare the population, that's why you end up with more women than men.

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Yorick: It's incredible how people lately have felt that it's open season on the United States, using the disaster to prove a point about American patriotic attitudes, and percieved 'cockiness'. Bin Laden did not blow up the WTC because Americans are 'cocky'. If that were the reason, the Arc D'triomphe, Buckingham palace, and Zoo station all should have been attacked. Anyhow, we have an international board. Part of communicating with others from different nations involves BITING YOUR TONGUE about percieved character trait flaws from other nations. Otherwise we could have this scenario: The British are xenophobic, stuffy, emotionally repressive, disunified and poor at sports. They all hate the French, Germans and all of Europe - thus travelling to America quicker than they would the continent - and cling to past glories because the present so drearily mirrors their climate. Miserable and sunless. The Germans are repressive about everything. They're unfriendly control freaks with chips on their shoulders and an overly cautious attitude that borders on self-blame paranoia. I wish they'd lighten up and smile in the streets a little during winter. Canadians possess an envious 'little brother' mentality regarding the USA, as do New Zealanders with Australia. However the Canadians have whiney seccessionistic French in their country and must pander to the spoilt brat tantrums Quebeqois throw every time a non Froncophile is running the country. Australians are hard arsed cynical bastards with an obsession with the "Tyrrany of distance" and ridiculous level of belief that their landscapes are the greatest anywhere. Well, they're right about that so it makes it worse. Sport is God there and a sensative artist will be skinned alive to the chants of 'Aussie Aussie Aussie, oi oi oi." I'll stop there. You get my point. I denigrated my own country to highlight I do not believe the said generalisations. I am trying to point out that we can all make generalisations about every race, nation, religious group and economic class. We are individuals though, many, if not most of whom break stereotypical moulds. CONSIDERATION, respect and a biting of ones tounge are necessary when dealing with those from other nations. The odds are they know more about themselves than an outsider.

Hugu...this is just about the funniest damn thing I've read in a long time. I have needed a tension breaker all day! Thank you so much for providing it!

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by ladyzekke: Well I guess it depends on what you post. It's OK to post what you believe in, and disagree with others, as long as you don't bash there beliefs in a rude manner in the process. That is the rules here on Ironworks, this is Ziroc's forum remember, and not a "free country" LOL. For just an example, if one says "I love America", it is OK to reply "I love MY country, because..." or whatever, etc. But if you say "I think all you American flag wavers are ridiculous" or in some way take another's words and bitch about them, then you are intentionally being insulting, no matter how you may try to cover it up by adding smilies or saying "just my opinion" or "no offense," as the insult is obvious. You will NEVER see me reply in a negative manner if I see a person say they love thier particular country, or show patriotism towards it, I do not feel offended, or insulted in any way, why would I for crying out loud? Of course we all love the countries we live in, and hold them in a special place in our hearts, nothing wrong or unusual about that. If you love your country, good for you, more power to you!!! Wave your flag, show pride in yourself and where you came from, again, nothing wrong with that! And AGAIN, loving one's country, and being supportive of it, does not mean you dislike or look down upon other countries, anyone who thinks that is ignorant and mistaken. Same goes for threads on religion. You can reply if you disagree by saying "this is what I believe...." instead of "why do you believe that? I find your beliefs not credible," etc., e.g., again, insulting a certain person instead of just posting your own position in a general manner. And I also think that repetitive posting on many many threads, saying the same thing again and again and again and again, is redundant after time, and screams of an obsessive nature. And once again, on the same note, if I see a thread with a person talking about their religion that is different from mine, you will NEVER see me post to it questioning or ragging on said religion. If you have NO religion whatsoever, again, I will not argue with you, nor try to convert you to believe differently, as I have respect for your individual decisions. Again, I think the main point here is that respect for eachother is what is needed here on this forum, and all those sarcastic argumentative replies are not productive, as nobody is going to change their beliefs on either side, so why go round and round about it? What purpose does it serve? What do we gain? Absolutely nothing.

No, dearest Wendy, I am afraid those are not the rules by which this game can be played ! Because you have just declared all - or at least most - of what I think that needs to be discussed as "off-limits". And in return you grant me the right to something I neither need nor want (and for what I never needed your permission if I ever wanted to indulge in it): to make patriotic statements about my own country. The issue that is bothering me and many other Europeans is not just American patriotism, but the virtue and dangers of patriotism in general. So, obviously, telling me to just be happy with and freely express my own patriotic feelings is not a solution for our disagreement that could ever satisfy me.

As to religion: do you really not realize how predominant religious references, symbols and religiously charged myths are in the American political culture ?
I will give you an example: in the debates on crime - both here and in the American public - I find it always amazing - and disturbing - how quickly absolute moral categories like "good" and "evil" are used when discussing an entirely secular political issue. You would never ever hear that from anybody in any other (western) country I have the slightest bit of knowledge of - and if so the person using them would be looked upon as having just completely disqualified him/-herself for being very unreasonable and dangerously extremist.
So, how can you then possibly expect me to consider religious beliefs and convictions to be something entirely personal and private ? (Btw, I have no problems doing that here because Germany, like all Western European countries, is a so highly secularized society that religion is indeed (almost) irrevalent in the political arena).

So, we don't keep coming back to the topics of patriotism and religion because we are the maliciously anti-religious, anti-American and even racist pack that Hugh enjoys to portray us as, but rather because some particularities of the American society make it inevitable in our opinion to discuss them: what many Americans fail to see is how extremely unique the prominent roles that both religion and patriotism play in their political and popular cultures are within the western world ! Unique does of course not automatically translate to "false" or "dangerous", but can you really blame us for wanting to discuss and concerning us with those aspects that - from our outside perspective - stick out ? Especially, when we are convinced that those particularities greatly influence the nature of actual political decisions that have or at least could have severe repercussions on us and our countries.

So, ultimately, Wendy, I am afraid there is only one thing that we could do other than discussing the matters that really concern us: shut up altogether (which btw is exactly what I have been doing for the most part over the last couple of weeks). But if you think twice you might realize that, while that option might spare you some annoyances in the short run, in the long run that might be prove to be extremely dangerous - especially if adopted on a much wider scale than just this little forum.

I honestly fear that one of the most serious long-term consequences of the events of September 11th could be a growing estrangement or even alienation between the USA and Europe - due to a resurgence of patriotism and religiosity on one side and to a resurgence of anti-americanism and cultural arrogance on the other. And if observing the debates on this forum has served for one thing it is to contribute to my growing feeling that we are already dangerously close to losing the ability to really communicate with each other - at least on the political issues that really matter - because we are literally not speaking the "same language"... and this is a frustration that is shared - at least partially - by all the European members I have discussed the matter with ... (okay, three people are certainly in no way representative of "Europe")

Thanks for bearing me out !


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So long !

R³ aka "The Ramonster"(thanks Sir Tainly) - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks - equally proud to be Moiraine's "permanent advocate" !

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Prime2U: Nope there are more females than males in the world. It has to do with longer lifespans and such.

which reminds me of another joke
why do men (married) die first?
*
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Because we want too.



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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[DioCheetah]

Originally posted by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon: No, dearest Wendy, I am afraid those are not the rules by which this game can be played ! Because you have just declared all - or at least most - of what I think that needs to be discussed as "off-limits". And in return you grant me the right to something I neither need nor want (and for what I never needed your permission if I ever wanted to indulge in it): to make patriotic statements about my own country. The issue that is bothering me and many other Europeans is not just American patriotism, but the virtue and dangers of patriotism in general. So, obviously, telling me to just be happy with and freely express my own patriotic feelings is not a solution for our disagreement that could ever satisfy me. As to religion: do you really not realize how predominant religious references, symbols and religiously charged myths are in the American political culture ? I will give you an example: in the debates on crime - both here and in the American public - I find it always amazing - and disturbing - how quickly absolute moral categories like "good" and "evil" are used when discussing an entirely secular political issue. You would never ever hear that from anybody in any other (western) country I have the slightest bit of knowledge of - and if so the person using them would be looked upon as having just completely disqualified him/-herself for being very unreasonable and dangerously extremist. So, how can you then possibly expect me to consider religious beliefs and convictions to be something entirely personal and private ? (Btw, I have no problems doing that here because Germany, like all Western European countries, is a so highly secularized society that religion is indeed (almost) irrevalent in the political arena). So, we don't keep coming back to the topics of patriotism and religion because we are the maliciously anti-religious, anti-American and even racist pack that Hugh enjoys to portray us as, but rather because some particularities of the American society make it inevitable in our opinion to discuss them: what many Americans fail to see is how extremely unique the prominent roles that both religion and patriotism play in their political and popular cultures are within the western world ! Unique does of course not automatically translate to "false" or "dangerous", but can you really blame us for wanting to discuss and concerning us with those aspects that - from our outside perspective - stick out ? Especially, when we are convinced that those particularities greatly influence the nature of actual political decisions that have or at least could have severe repercussions on us and our countries. So, ultimately, Wendy, I am afraid there is only one thing that we could do other than discussing the matters that really concern us: shut up altogether (which btw is exactly what I have been doing for the most part over the last couple of weeks). But if you think twice you might realize that, while that option might spare you some annoyances in the short run, in the long run that might be prove to be extremely dangerous - especially if adopted on a much wider scale than just this little forum. I honestly fear that one of the most serious long-term consequences of the events of September 11th could be a growing estrangement or even alienation between the USA and Europe - due to a resurgence of patriotism and religiosity on one side and to a resurgence of anti-americanism and cultural arrogance on the other. And if observing the debates on this forum has served for one thing it is to contribute to my growing feeling that we are already dangerously close to losing the ability to really communicate with each other - at least on the political issues that really matter - because we are literally not speaking the "same language"... and this is a frustration that is shared - at least partially - by all the European members I have discussed the matter with ... (okay, three people are certainly in no way representative of "Europe") Thanks for bearing me out !

Cheetah says

Thanks for posting this Ramon. At the risk of spamming, I'd just like to say that you have communicated my own feelings on this almost exactly. The way it feels to me is, yes, that is exactly the way it is. Thanks for pointing up the differences in the ways that Americans and Europeans live and perceive their relationship to their own countries and cultures.

The Dio head of the freakish symbiote (damned transporter accidents!) speaks: awesome post, dude. Though do beware of stereotypes about both American and European ways of thinking. I am an American after all, remember?

Cheetah: Er, yes. There is that!!

Dio: Hmmm . . . . now let's move over there, okay? Come on, move the damned left foot . . .

Cheetah: Sh*t, just fell on our collective bottom......... ooh noooo can't co-ordinate sufficiently well to get up........ Now what....

Dio: Aarrrggghhhh . . . just forget getting up and give me that banana

Cheetah: Get out of my house NOW you've eaten all the Cheetah's food!!!!!!

Dio: I would leave, you stupid b*tch, but I happen to be attached to you, remember?

Cheetah chokes on apple and expires.......... (this is very nearly true!!!!)



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[Cloudbringer]

Ok Ramon...(dio/sc etc) so if I read you correctly, patriotic Americans (and religious ones) are terrible things and should be villified for existing while forbidden to express their beliefs because as you claim, it's not the way of the rest of the world.

I'm sorry, this whole atmosphere of accusation and blame has soured the place for me. I truly dread coming here some days.

Yorick's post meant something to me. It seems to have escaped a few of you that he was saying gross generalisations are patently wrong. I agree with him.

Ok, I will cease to make myself heard here. It pains me, but I must leave Ironworks for a while. I am starting to take it all very personally and feel hurt, attacked and in some cases just plain hated for being what I am. While I'm hoping this is just because I'm tired and misreading, I see people are over-the-top and being aggressive for the sake of the attack- to PROVE their points at my expense or someone else's.

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[Ladyzekke]

Originally posted by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon: No, dearest Wendy, I am afraid those are not the rules by which this game can be played ! Because you have just declared all - or at least most - of what I think that needs to be discussed as "off-limits". And in return you grant me the right to something I neither need nor want (and for what I never needed your permission if I ever wanted to indulge in it): to make patriotic statements about my own country. The issue that is bothering me and many other Europeans is not just American patriotism, but the virtue and dangers of patriotism in general. So, obviously, telling me to just be happy with and freely express my own patriotic feelings is not a solution for our disagreement that could ever satisfy me.

Sigh, Ramon, my post was meant as a pathetic attempt to try to get members here to stop insulting eachother while debating about sensitive topics. I probably babbled on a bit, but that was my main point. Perhaps I worded things wrong, but in no way am I giving you, or anyone, "permissions" or "grants" to do anything. I am not "declaring" any topic "off limits" where do I say that? I was merely again trying to explain how there may be a better way to talk to eachother so people do not get angry or insulted. Obviously my attempts fall on deaf ears. Now Cloudy has left the forum from all the animosity here. What progress eh?



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[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Cloudy and Lady Zekke, whoa there for a sec. I am somewhat baffled by your respective posts above. What animosity? Certainly none was intended by my post above, nor do I see any in Ramon's post to which you were referring.

Perhaps you could use a break from the forum for awhile Cloudy, I think you are reading way too much into what Ramon was trying to say. Certainly I needed a break from the forum recently, I took it, and now I am back with a fresh perspective and a wonderfully wholesome attitude

Yes, there is no need for animosity on the forum, but the other side of that coin is that people are sometimes being overly sensitive and defensive and reading things into posts which were not meant.

We can disagree without being disagreeable

St. Diogenes Of Pumpkintown



[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 10-21-2001).]